Anybody know what they do? What is their purpose? Why do we need so many of them? Been seeing a few flock camera's in Kansas City. Are they connected to data centers?

They can be used to take away our freedoms.

My understanding is that the data centers use their computing power, switching systems, & data files to respond to all the types of inquires we (the public) (and businesses) are making on our smart phones & computers.
Want to know about a river in Omaha Nebraska? Type it into your browser and receive the info. How about how your prescription medication interacts with dairy?. Those inquiries need a library of sorts to find and responds to the request.
When scaled up, think about how one set of toll cameras on a highway need to record the plate information, run it in a database to determine owner, & then bill the owner based on where they entered and left the highway.
Just a couple of easy examples, but the growth is staggering and endless.

Artificial intelligence. Need massive computers to run it. Those people/companies who build them are hoping to make a lot of money from companies and people who pay for the amount of A I they use.

How is the average user paying for it ? Seems like every time one of my internet contracts is up the price goes up at least five bucks a month. My electric bill is constantly creeping up but I'm not using any more electricity.

Used to make strange porn and advertise to you based on what you searched and who you interacted with.

Flock cameras and data centers....nothing to fear good citizens! Surveillance is good for you.

You know how they say, once you post something on the internet it is there forever, all that info has to be stored somewhere. And when they say, you can protect your photos, etc from being lost by storing them "in the cloud", welcome to the cloud.

A data center is just a big building filled with computers. Anything and everything you do on the internet and with technology.

If you’re opposed to data centers then quit using the internet and your phone.

I don't think using internet or phones and being worried about privacy and a growing surveillance apparatus enabled by data centers are mutually exclusive.

Surveillance is a tiny part of what is done in data centers.

Cancer is a tiny cluster of malformed cells.

Which doesn't make it okay.

They are building 2 large ones near me and going through those pross of getting a smaller one aproved 2 are within 15 miles the 3 will be within 40 mins.

The major complains are constant noise, energy and water used.

The most effect I can see for most people thay seem to be asleep about is the power demand.

Basic suply and demand dictates with increased demand we get increased prices. Increased energy prices increas the cost of everything not just our electric bills.

Also why im intrested in adding some solar.

Now if we dont build them and stop or slow down things like AI and terminator movie type systems over obvious potential risk concerns that just opend the door for other countries without those concerns to catch up and thinking about China doing that is also something to consider.

At the end of the day we have no choice what is going to be done will be . I try to look ahead and see how I may benefit and mitigate the possible negatives.

I’m sure no one wants one built near them. But, if what is being said about China overtaking us and directing the future narrative we may wish one day we hadn’t opposed them. I heard the bitcoin mining centers are the ones with the constant roar, I don’t know. The world is ever changing around us in ways most normal people don’t think.

if by "it" you mean surveilance, then I agree. Its not ok.

If by "it" you mean data centers, then I disagree. We can have the same conversation about power stations. Surveilance doesn't exist without power stations. At the moment, the headline reason for most power station expansion is data centers. Lets protest power stations! Power stations power surveilance, burn them all to the ground!

When non-tech people rage against data centers that's more or less what it sounds like to tech people.

Yes!

China is close to catching up to us on AI. The advance of AI is unstoppable. The question is: do we want US companies in the lead and in control, or do we want chinese companies in control. I do not want to learn how to speak chinese.

I would like to know more about them, do they use a lot of electricity? Use a lot of fresh water or any water? Are they noisy? Do they only create jobs during construction, then just a few? Why not put them away from populated areas? The ones I am familiar with are Hermantown and Pine Island MN where the want to build them.

I'm guessing AI itself will, in time, be instrumental in solving the power grid and water usage issues. Change, while I don't like it, is inevitable.

Yes, the "it" I was referring to is the surveillance aspect. That should never be accepted, but it probably will be in the name of progress.

That could be what my great great grandpa told his Ute Tribe about the Iron Rails !

I'll make an attempt that those questions:

electricity use - yes, enormous amounts of electricity

water use - highly variable. They must cool the equipment (electricity eventually is turned into heat, which must be moved out of the building). But as I understand it, new ones generally recirculate / reuse their cooling water sorta like the coolant in your car is cycled through repeatedly. So as I understand it the water complaints are mostly overblown for new data centers. But definiately something to watch.

noise - yes

jobs - yes. A lot during construction then just a few direct jobs for a relativley small staff operating the facility. But the operation of the data center enables all the tech you know of today (AI, web sites, e-comerce, etc). So the indirect jobs are uncountable.

build them away from populated areas - YES!!!


IMHO, the best resolution to the data center debate is:
- build them away from populated areas,
- ensure the data center operator FULLY bears the cost of electrical grid expansion (including new power plants years later),
- do not allow emenant domain to take land for data centers without consent
- ensure the water issues carefully scrutinized and the there minimal water consumption from the facility.

With those stipulations, I'm a fan of letting them build as much as they can/want.

X2 SGK

That is pretty accurate from what I have read also.

I have also read that the noise is generally from those plants using natural gas to fire onsite turbines for generation of power .

I have seen it described as a low frequency "hum".

I also think that the groups opposed to data centers are the best indication that we should build them.

Are governments ( Wesley) picking AI data centers as winners?

LOL Mouch ????

We had two projects ( two mines) abandoned here by private investors. Wesley redefined them and picked them as winners after private investors left. Taxpayers are gonna be the losers again.

Moral hazard is all too common

There are lots of data centers around already and have been for quite a while.
AI requires massive ones.
They are the big brain bug of AI.
They utulize a lot of natural resources to run.
laws have recently been passed here to make sure the demand for these resources are both paid fully by the company running the center and that the increased demand for resources like water and electricity will be prioritized for the people and any shortages due to excessive demand by the centers will be bourn by the data centers and not the people.
Also under the new laws all data centers built in Ontario will only store Canadian data.

There is one being built right now about 6 miles from me. It used to be a coal generating station, which gave out hunting permits for their 1000+ acres that they owned. I heard that wont be allowed now with this new AL plant and they are acquiring big acreages adjoining them.

What does AI do besides create pictures video and song? Why do we need it?

They want to build one at the local decommissioned coal power station around me. All they keep repeating is that our electric bills will double within a certain radius of the plant. And no one is denying it.

Lots of things Danny. But I think one of the most crucial, besides defense, is healthcare. AI is still in it's very early stages and already is able to detect cancers and tumors that even trained specialists might miss. It also allows for instant analysis of scans in emergency settings where a few moments can mean the difference between life and death.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/ai-in-healthcare

"And power is perhaps the biggest bottleneck of all. Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimates a 19-gigawatt shortfall in power for AI data centers by 2035 if growth continues at its current pace. "

Bloomberg has a big time “climate crisis” “green energy” bias,,,,

Mega donor to the dems

If the need for AI is so critical why can't we shut down the porn and stupid video generating and focus on what matters like defense, robotics and Healthcare?

I thought electricity was green energy?

Follow the money

Right, its almost like China whataboutism is justification for using eminent domain to steal land, drive power cost and use water to enrich corporate America and drive the stock market.

Who is "we" donner?

I could never be manipulated that way. That rare earth mine will open any day here now to defeat those communist.

The US has an abundance of natural gas. Many of the data centers will use gas fired electrical generation. Buy ET, EPD, ONEOK etc and watch the dividends roll in.

Depends which flavor,,,, and where the components come from

The people subsidizing this with their electric bills

OK, how do we do this? By pushing for more federal or state laws and regulations against private enterprise? When we already have so many of those that most of our manufacturing has fled overseas?

Wouldn't it make more sense to address this issue on a local level? To go to your town/county board meetings and demand that any companies building data centers must pay for any additional infrastructure needed to support the center? That would not result in any more law needless laws. The company could choose to pay for the required infrastructure, or choose a more hospitable town/county to build in...... seems as thought that would be a win/win for those opposed to data centers on the basis of energy/water costs?

I am on my county P & Z board and we just recommended to our commissioners to put in place a 12 month or less if need as we are just redoing our comprehensive plan and zoning regulations. I just retired so I am doing a lot of research on Data and AI centers. My thoughts so far is that they are a necessary possible evil needed component or our ever expanding and growing modern technology we use and enjoy as a society. I am impressed with the T Man crew in the way many have responded to this thread and stated their thoughts without a lot of non- factual comments. If I remember right we now have over 4,600 data centers in the USA already, some fairly big some pretty small. The older ones do use a lot of water to cool but the newer ones to be built in the future are looking at ways to curb the water use and still cool the equipment. With the technology we have now the data and AI centers will still needs massive amounts of electricity. I have talked with the Nebraska Public Power District and they are confident the electrical needs can and will be met. Either by our public power system here in Nebraska or by the centers building their own power plants.

The question of if we need them or not seems to be pointing in the direction of YES we do need them to keep with the pace of our demand of using the webb. Just about everything we do on the webb ... on our PCs or on our phones goes thru servers and equipment in these centers. Trillions and Trillions of bytes of information travels thru the webb, thru countless servers all over the globe to do our business ..... and that is all in less than a milli second. There is potential for much good..... and at the same time alot of bad. If they are not built here they will be built somewhere. Some say (I have found out in my research) that China is planting false information to get many people turned against the data centers here in the states that way they will get the opportunity to build and operate a majority of them. I have been told by many grain buyers that China has for years started rumors or false information to maneuver the grain market before they purchase grain. I don't know if the way we are heading is a good thing or if it will destroy mankind. In just about anything we do. But can we stop it... because in my opinion we are the drivers behind the need for Data and AI centers. Technology use keeps growing and unless you live under a rock you are part of it.

Why don't the data centers provide their own power? I provide mine. The

Siemens Energy SGT5-9000HL is currently the most powerful heavy-duty gas turbine for the 50-Hz market, with a capacity of 593 MW.


Buy a couple of these babies and no line loses or transmission line expenses.

Because the NIMBY crew sues/fights them. Spend 20 minutes reading about Musk and Memphis TN / Southaven MS.

Nimby's are part of doin business in the U.S.

Data centers will use natural gas to generate power on site. Buy ET, etc.

Your whole post was good....but I want to draw attention to this line.

We CAN stop the advance of AI / data centers. It's not hard.

You'll need to pack some stuff from the house to your shooting range.

Pack up your TV, all phones in the house, your smart watches and fitness trackers, your dogs tracking and training collars, your smart appliances, your alexas, your rokus, your tablets, laptops, PCs and any other computing devices, your security cameras, your baby monitors, etc.....

Take them out to the range and using some tannerite if need be.... blast them to bits.

Then go to the bank and take out any money you might have there. Close out your brokerage accounts, IRAs, 401ks, 429s, any ANYTHING crypto and convert it all into paper money or precious metals.

On the way home, use that money to buy a lot more tannerite...

Once you get home, use the tannerite to demolish any cars/trucks/boats/ATVS/etc. made after 1990.

OH and file a legal document refusing to allow any computing technology (MRI, CT, Xray, radiation, etc) medical devices to ever be used on you.

If the majority of the people in the US would do this... there would be no more AI or data centers.....

I don't disagree. But so is negotiating with townships/counties. If the local government is more amenable than the NIMBYs and willing to supply "free" power.... what business owner in their right mind wouldn't take that offer?

Governments are going to supply free power? They going to get it free from the power fairy?

I guess you missed the quotations. I thought your reading comprehension was better than that!

If this is so critical to national defense that China will enslave us without it then it seems prudent to make regulations that favor that urgent and pressing need. I mean of its truly that critical maybe we should.considsr nationalizing them...

Why not build Data centers everywhere, I mean billionaires love Data centers and we need to keep our billionaires happy right.
They love Data centers so much that we might be able to convince them that Data centers are more fun than making love to small children.
I mean, we should at least try right. What could possibly go wrong


Some of you just can't see past the convenience of having a computer make your life easier and it is sad

I know blaa blaa blaa CHINA CHINA blaa blaa blaa blaa CHINA CHINA

For those in favor of Data centers, have at least an extra $100 a week taken out of your pay and have it sent to the billionaire of your choice.
Better yet, sign over your house and land and maybe even your first born to them
Why even stop there, you could donate yourself to them as a personal foot servant

Who needs a personal space and privacy when we have Data centers
What could go wrong

Boycotting the internet would be a good first step


Instead of ranting on it,,,,

Geez!! And you say women shouldn't be allowed to vote!

I do exactly that. As does anyone with a 401k.

Just saw a video, in California and some other states you can request data a company has on file from you. McDonald's has 500+ pages of profile data on its customers, this is what we urgently need data centers for apparently

You know exactly what I meant

Sure I did. It just doesn't make sense. Everyone hates big business but you never hear them complaining about their retirement accounts soaring........

Can you be against the government subsidizing and owning big business and not be a hater of big business? Only problem I have with any of this. Let's not pretend we have free enterprise when politicians are picking winners with OPM. Not that this is a new occurrence, just seems to me more common in the era of 40% of GDP is government spending.

Soaring on strong fundamentals and long term sustainable returns right?

I don't think you understand, if we don't enrich a few well connected corporations we will become china's slaves

Absolutely. I think you know I am very much against government subsidies and government ownership of private businesses.



Of course not, at least for the most part. (That IS true for some). But mostly soaring on optimism..... for AI........ and data centers lol.

Not to change the subject but I still don't know what datacenters/AI are going to do that is so critical we can't do without them. Seems like a lot of effort to get a medical diagnosis that trained professionals rarely miss.

That's why they should put generation on site and not get it off the government subsidized grid. As Kansas Cat has said there is plenty of natural gas in America currently provided by the private sector.

True/ actual “free enterprise” ended in the late 30’s-40’s when western governments adopted Keynesian economics,,,

Big government/welfare/social security/etc

It’s been all downhill since then,,,, and rapidly increasing

,,,,,,Actually there’s a serious legit argument that it really all began to go downhill with the creation of the federal reserve/ central banks

The two work/fail in tandem

You can't see the benefit of 500 page profiles on each McDonald's customer?

I don't believe they are. The shift is going to away from having your own mainframe to using one over the internut. In the end I believe it will be a subscription scheme like Cable T.V.

Have you done any reading, Danny, on AI and the military? On topics such as surveillance or autonomous weapons?

How many Americans have died or been permanently disabled doing scouting work for the military over the years that can now be done entirely by AI?

"What is the Stargate Project?
The Stargate Project is a large-scale, public-private initiative focused on developing the physical and digital infrastructure needed to power next-generation artificial intelligence (AI).

Structured as Stargate LLC, a Delaware-based joint venture, the project brings together various stakeholders to coordinate the largest AI infrastructure buildout in US history. With an initial USD 100 billion investment led by SoftBank—and total commitments expected to reach USD 500 billion over four years—Stargate is designed to position the US at the forefront of AI development through unmatched scale, computing power and capital alignment.

The Stargate Project was announced at the White House alongside President Donald Trump and senior administration officials. It aims to build out a nationwide network of advanced AI data centers, starting with a flagship facility in Abilene, Texas.

It’s important to note that the Stargate Project is not affiliated with Project Stargate, the CIA’s defunct psychic research program of similar name, nor the science fiction series it inspired. This version is grounded firmly in data, energy and capital—not clairvoyance or wormholes."

Source: IBM now a public- private initiative.

Some companies are producing their independent electricity for data centers,,,

Not sure what the percentage is,,,,,

Didn’t Microsoft buy(sign a deal???) for 3mile island to produce electricity?

Good question for AI,,,, lol



There’s plenty trying to jump through the endless regulation loops

The number will only grow,,,,

Shouldn't we be complaining about the fact that the grid is subsidized to begin with?

I'm certainly not opposed to on-site generation. I am also not opposed to use of the grid IF the affected states/counties/municipalities reach an agreement amenable to both sides.......

I thought that was what we were complaining about when the democrats were in charge?

For me thats like says we can do everything with out computers or any other modern technological advancement. Sure we can and we did but we were a whole less effective and efficient. Which ultimately slows down our economical growth which hurts us greatly.

As a whole its easy to be against change, especially when you arent informed and ive been there before.

For those against businesses making money im guessing its mostly a jealousy, victim mentality thing and id suggest you jump on board with them and make money alongside them and then give all your profits away to other victims since its a bad thing. Ive been learning about AI and the economy the last 3 months or so and have to admit i have and still are a bit ignorant about it all but my eyes have been opened up to the importance of economic growth. Is all the policies of our government that effect that perfect? No but ill tell you if we stop as a nation trying to be the strongest nation economically it wont be too many generations and we will be a second or third world country. Two most important things for a country to be powerful are its economy and it military. Study on it some so your not ignorant like me. And if you dont like AI dont use it and go get a library card.

And for those worried about the government watching you, how many of you dont have a cellphone? The ships done sailed on that one and i dont like it either. Sure AI will make the surveillance more efficient as it will everything else. Got to take the good with the bad.

There's already enough BAD
Do we really need more?

I was a long time getting a computer. Still today I mostly use it for entertainment. Use it to order stuff. Cell phone has made my job easier. I can't imagine why I need more computering or will use it differently.

Does the military need half a dozen in every state?

I still don't understand how AI will grow the economy. Heard an Elon Musk interview where he said people will have more discretionary money in just ten years. I don't understand that either.

I am beginning to think it's more about control of people than anything positive.

No but we cant pass up technology advancements just because it is going to make surveillance easier along with the thousands of other things it helps can we? Surveillance is a policy issue not an AI issue. Like i said if you really are so worried about surveillance you wouldn't own a cell phone. I dont like it either but the worth of a cell phone must be grester for almost all of us than the negatives of someone watching and listening to us 24 hours a day or we wouldn't have them.

I do believe anti AI propaganda is be directed at our population by foreign powers to weaken us.

P.S. I don't eat at McDonalds very often. Been years since the last time. I buy most stuff with cash. I doubt they have a file on me.

Seems like a lot of folks need to understand how prevelent AI is going to be in the near future. Soon, your heart surgeon will be a robot powered by AI. Many surgeries are already being performed by robots. Health care costs should decline very rapidly when it becomes more mainstream. That's just one example, there are many more coming that will make your life much easier and less expensive. Also, AI does not stand for Artificial Insemination in this context.

Many say AI will allow all people to never have to work again and allow the govt to use all the profits to give everyone a universal basic income.
That is the ultimate goal.

Danny how much more do you use the internet, computer and cellphone more than 15 years ago? 25% 50% 200%? Think as if AI as expanding the computing power. The demand for this technology is growing every year in every sector and AI is the solution to fill that need. AI is basically just more computing power.

Noticed that too good way to drive out folks who have inherited homes or bought years ago in quiet suburbs seen where the companies will buy them out but where you gonna go No different then wind farms springing up around a place that doesn't want to sell your property is worthless unless you sell out to the wind farm

That's funny stuff.

Well said Seth !! You sound like Jamie Dimon.

Without increased productivity we will not continue to have the strongest economy on the planet.............and that will mean we will not have the strongest military on the planet. It is simple to discern the outcome of that situation.

AI is critical to achieve increased productivity on an ongoing basis.

Agree a hundred percent Feel sorry for the wealthy neighborhoods that don't get to enjoy all this progress

Lol
Thanks. I have a good friend that has been helping me with my learning.
Well actually two good friends

A few EMPs will end the Data center boom
Or someone might just make them go boom
There's a few of the Data centers that are already protected under national security concerns,( taxpayers money )
So what happens when most of them contain national security assets?
BIG FRICKIN TAX HIKE

Yes it has some benefits, but in the end the taxpayers will be the ones paying for it

Yea that Musk Fella who espoused that is a weird dude but he is a doer.

Universal income is just another word for communism. No thanks.

Labor Productivity: Output ÷ Labor Hours

If labor hours decrease, productivity increases. Productivity increase can just mean less human jobs to get a task done, not necessarily an increased output.

We are using them right now as we speak.

The genie cant be put back in the bottle.
Unless there is a global nuclear holocaust.
Back to the stone age.(einstein excerpt)

wetdog, you seem resentful, having to pay taxes. If I may ask, how much do you pay? You must be in a very high bracket to be worried about an increase in taxes due to security costs for a few data centers that the Government needs to protect.
First off, I sure would hope the Government would protect them. Chances are that they NEED THEM.
Second off, in the big scheme of things, the cost of protecting Government data centers is likely smaller than a tiny rounding error, as in so tiny you wouldn't notice the maybe .00001 cents to your personal income tax, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep on that.

I'll fill in if I may, I paid in over 6 figures if you include payroll taxes, income, property, etc. They can't even grade my road so you're dang right I'm resentful over any additional stupid spending

… this is all nonsense

Sounds a bit communist to me, what do you want China to win!?

…. I guess dude

… cause what we got goin on around here these days is a 90’s Saturday night live sketch lol

We can definitely do better at running this country than what weve been doing lately but i still consider it the best nation in the world to live in

Here's a different tact. Lets talk pragmatically.

Opposing data centers is like opposing terrorism.

The terrorists only need to get through every once in a while to succeed, while the security folks must suceed 100% of the time.

The data center builders don't one on every street corner. They don't need every jurisdiction to agree. If 0.01% of the planning boards let them in, they'll have plenty of options.

Meh……a kid in his parents basement can bring one crashing down with a few strokes of a keyboard.

Sounds like the space race in the 60's with russia at least we don't have to build underground bunkers now