Some counties in MO must have a 4 point on at least one side to be legal. That sure makes it tough to take a shot especially on moving deer or tighter racks. I’ve passed on a few that were shooters even so not seeing the brow tine has to get a pass I’m not taking any chances. It helps I’m not that obsessed to get a deer but I like the acorn feed venison.

That's why I hate antler count restrictions. Some guys just want to shoot a deer for the meat.

Pennsylvania instituted a three-point rule for most of the state and a four-point rule for some western counties bordering Ohio several years ago.

It does make it tough to identify a shooter sometimes. You have to see that brow on a six point or it’s not a legal deer.

If we ever get antler restrictions I'll use every doe tag I can get to shoot button bucks

Our acorns are hit and miss here. Had 2 does in the yard yesterday feeding on small post oak, but that's about I have. How's the crop in your hunting area?

Need to come further south, and there's no restrictions here.

…. Wait till yall get what we have …. A minimum spread rule …. The problem is the deer won’t let you measure them until after you shoot em

We have an antler spread restriction on a big timber company lease that I hunt. It’s supposed to be a 15-inch inside spread to be a shooter buck.

I’m told the way to tell that is that the antlers are outside of the ears when the ears are in an alert position.

I don’t worry about all that though. I’m a meat hunter and mostly target doe. If I “accidentally” kill a smaller buck on the lease, I just report it as being killed off the lease.

Defiantly changed the way we hunt.
Doe became legal at the same time and date.
After one season of bullets cracking overhead,
and trying to count points on runners,,
the thicket sneakers were done, and private land
stump sitters got bored from no moving deer.

If you mention that shooting only trophies
and letting runts breed is stupid.
You'll be told you don't know how to hunt,
by people who don't know how to farm.
Adapt or quit.

the WI 3 inch rule doesn't slow much down
especially when we have 3-5 doe tags this year in some counties

I saw a buck a few weeks ago , biggest spike I have ever seen , it had probably 7 inch spikes but didn't branch out at all.

Mo. has mismanaged the deer herd to the point the darn things are a problem. Couple that with the CWD threat and you end up with a real mess.

I love this thread!

"Meat" hunters rule the day on most public lands....then complain because they never see a good buck.....lol

If you're hunting an area with nothing but private tracts......must be patient....a good one is out there....must be patient! Kill the does for meat.

For you professed meat hunters: if an antlered buck and a doe is standing side by side....which will you shoot? Yeah...I thought so....

Yes, I'll shoot the buck, if he offers a shot first. But if the doe offers the first shot, I'll take her. I'm after meat, not horns. And 1 in the hand, they say.....

And I don't complain about not seeing big bucks. I'd darn sure complain about not being able to shoot a fork if I saw one and it HAD to have three points on a side.

Used to have a antler point restriction here in Mn. I believe that finding CWD had something to do with not having anymore, we had it at one time.

Yeah...down here in the deep Southern US most private tract hunters voluntarily have antler restrictions. Nobody wants to kill a small buck....everybody wants to kill a big buck.

State requires one of our two buck season limit to have 4pts on one side over an inch or a 15" inside spread. The other buck can have any size antlers.

We need to have a reg change that allows a 3rd buck (with antler restrictions) to be killed but only after you've killed 3 does and game check them....then a 3rd buck slot will appear on your e-license.

Our populations are high enough that meat gathering is not much of an issue.

Three point rule here in AR. Made a huge difference in antler quality. We now shoot more 16” 8 pts than we used to shoot spikes and forkhorns. When the 3 pt rule started here, there sure was a lot of whining and complaining. Within about five years, we were back to killing the same number of deer - they were just 6, 8, and 10 pts instead of spikes and forkhorns. Of course, always gonna be some complainers that I guess would rather be shooting a 100 lb spike than a 170 lb eight point.

Does

Fork bucks.

Freedom to choose.

You’ll never hear me complain about not seeing a good buck. I really don’t care if I never shoot another nice one. Give me a nice fat doe every time and I’ll be happy.


I’ll ask the same question of you professional trophy hunters, if an antlered buck and a doe is standing side-by-side.. which will you shoot?

Yeah… I thought so…

The point restriction was removed from our county last year after having it for close to 20 years. I liked it. The only thing I didn’t like was it prevents from removing bad genetics from the herd. Like no brow tines, or bucks that never became more than a 6-pt.

We used to use the kids during youth season to cull bucks but they quickly learned to be more patient and wait for the better bucks.

if we had a 3-4 month gun deer season in WI waiting for the right buck would be different. that tends to be more of an archery season 3 1/2 months

when you have 9 days and generally you have to be home in 3-4 because Thanksgiving is Thursday of deer season

put 700K people in the woods opening weekend and you would have to have a mighty big private tract to not notice a change in deer behavior opening weekend.

Im a brown it goes down type of guy. Whatever steps out first could have milk still dropping of its chin to the 30 pointer I dont wait around.. lol if I had a ton of land, where deer were plentiful and had time to hunt I maybe different, but I dont have all that so it goes down.

For me its a mature buck or does. I enjoy seeing and pursuing big bucks so the youngens get a pass

Usually, neither - unless the antlered buck is a really nice one. I have probably already passed six or seven legal bucks. I dont know how many does - I cant tell them apart. Saturday evening, hunting five different locations on my 350 acres, between the five locations, we saw 52 deer. We killed 1 nine pt, and five 8 pts - all but two of the hunters were 15 years old or younger. A dozen legal (3 pt or better on one side) bucks were passed - and a bunch of does. We killed one of our six or so bigger target bucks.

Only way the three doe thing works is with a manual check of the does. Otherwise a lot of folks are gonna be checking three does via the app.

Sportsman94,
True...but the entire game check is on the honor system.

I hate the app or telecheck. I miss the physical check in stations. I was young when they had them, but a lot of interesting stories and nice deer you get to see. Once seen a goat, the check in guy just shook his head didnt say a word and let the guy do it.

I think the online ck system is probably not anywhere near accurate. Not sure the only folks checking are those who take their deer to a commercial processor and must have evidence of being checked

White your probably right. I know a few people have a 2 kill 1 tag policy. 1st deer never counts 2nd gets tagged, just incase they get checked in freezer. Same way if they have a 2nd tag. The 3rd one won't count but the 4th will. The conservation makes it easy to break the rules, might be part of the plan. Get you all caught up in stuff!

I don’t think many of the processors around my neck of the woods check to make sure the deer has been checked already

Ours make sure. GW will check them from time to time

Makes you wonder how many bucks get left to rot because the hunter thought they were shooting an eight point which was the minimum number of points and found out it was a six point after they shot it?

thats a problem for someone with a badge , take down the plate number , you have name and license info , make the report when you go back in the building and let it be their problem.

we had them till a few years ago , stopped needing to go to one in about 2013 but still were some physical locations for Amish ,old folks and such to go to for a while maybe even still is some don't know.

Then you had no worries. Can’t remove “bad” genetics in a wild herd and culling has almost zero effect. Remember half the dna comes from the doe also. So she could be passing on those traits also. You would need a captive herd and monitor each doe’s offspring. Lots of work.

We have point restrictions of three points in Maryland. One of the three bucks (with extra tag) has to meet the point requirement.

In Delaware we get two antlered deer per season. One quality buck tag that has to be 15” outside spread, basically past the ears. And one is hunters choice. Can be any deer you feel like shooting.

If I shoot a buck, I limit myself to only one quality deer per season, per state I hunt. I like to leave the carry handles to the folks who enjoy them. So I focus on crop damage does mostly.

I will say, that’s my opinion and until someone buys your license for you, they can’t tell you what to shoot or not shoot. As long as it’s legal and you have a tag for it. Send it if it makes you happy.


Just be safe out there and always wear a fall arrest harness when using a tree stand.

Lots of does and scrub bucks mostly this is probably the best year for a chance for a good buck that we have had in several years, seen groups of 14 does in one place and 10 in another spot if they get hot it will be interesting.

I'm not much into shooting does anymore let the grandkids shoot the does.I shoot bucks big and small.

Georgia does not require a deer to be game checked if left at a processor or a taxidermist. We hashed this out on a statewide level when game check was first initiated and decided it is the responsibility of the hunter to ensure game check not the processor. Processors do not need to get the confirmation number.

I did hunt non antler restriction co. Seemed tough to me. Would have hated to get a deer down and count and realize it was not legal. I always tried to shoot a skin head if I could but always shot the first legal deer I could in my deer hunting days I shot a few nice bucks because they were the first I would see so I could get back to work the check stations or process duck hunters or shoot some quakers. Buy the way the northeast of Missouri have a good crop of acorns. Did agent work at times but was not an agent as such. Never wanted to be one as their job is tough no matter what you heard. Wetland management was my cup of tea. Never had a duck or goose smart talk me. And if I had if it was season I blow him out of air if legal

Most of the APR’s are three or four points on one side - so you dont have to count all the points. Has never happened to any of my hunters in 30 years - and I am including a bunch of young kids. If a 12 yr old can count points correctly, so should an adult. When our state started an APR, all you heard was excuses and complaints - I was one of them. It took about five years for the apr to show results. 8 pt bucks started becoming fairly common after five years - then bigger eight points. We were soon harvesting as many bucks as we did before apr’s - they were just twice as big as they used to be.

I have zero desire to kill a buck unless I "think" it is 6.5 years old or more. However, I think people should be able to shoot whatever they want. Antler restrictions restrict people's ability to exercise their freedom to kill whatever they legally want in exchange for another guy's freedom to grow bigger bucks.

The guy that wants to get it done with
is the guy that has to go to work.

I found three dead the first year.
I was peeved but it works out.
That herd got a severe pruning that season,
then the "hunters" moved to greener pastures.
Now I average finding one but did find them prior ARs.
Road kill, predation, Ma nature etc.
It's not Disneyland.

Over here it is not the processors job to check tags.
They use their own tag since the license tagger, and butcher service payer
are many times different people.

The guy that wants to get it done with
is the guy that has to go to work.

I’ll take a lone doe if I think that’s the situation at hand I’ll take mature buck or nothing, I’m ok with nothing no problem. A biologist in MI claimed spike and forks will always be inferior rack wise just what he claimed.

Another saying was everyone’s a deer biologist 2 weeks a year so there’s some truth to that.

I think public land mentality is I don’t want this deer but I don’t want the other guys to get it then the buyers remorse sets in when it’s too late.

That MI biologist was a complete moron.

Jump on them with a club, knock em out , measure them then release...

I have shot a fair amount of big bucks, solely hunted them for years, and have never liked the 4 point rule. Problems:
-Leasing has dramatically increased by out of town/state hunters. I am fortunate to have more private land than I can ever hunt. Number of locals that have lost land to hunt and decrease of kids hunting is large. Out of town hunters do very little to help the local economy.
-Zero biological basis for the four point rule.
-People have been told what a trophy is and what is worthy to be taken. My first buck had one side broken off and 3 little points on the other. Couldn't have been prouder and still is first on the row of racks.
-People are being forced to help with the dreams of others. I have passed up many bucks that have jumped the fence and been shot. Want bigger bucks? Pass them up and take a chance of them surviving or buy enough land to make it happen.
-A lot more people, and unfortunately kids, making comments such as, "It's only an 8 point. It's not very big/heavy/wide, etc." Basically feeling the need to talk down/justify their buck. You want to shoot a spike then go ahead.

I don't care what restrictions there is or isn't, but you should positively identify your target that includes the number of points, hen or a rooster tom or hen, 15" bass or 14 7/8" bass.

Absolutely correct Nate.

X2!

Ol Dad

One thing that the food plots have done to improve our hunting is to keep deer and turkeys in our area more than having them disperse to other places.

I'm perfectly fine with killing slick heads.

I could care less about the antler point restrictions..

Never found a way to cook them that the they turned out even close to edible.

Yep them acorn fed does are some good eating.

I'll shoot a nice buck if I get the chance. But it's still just meat since I don't have trail cam pics and patterns and such. If I get a shot at one it will be the first time I've seen it. If I don't get a shot at one that's fine too - a doe or small buck is fine.

X2

How many Does does an individual Buck impregnate in a year?
Each Doe gets impregnated by one buck per year.
That genetically inferior buck is going to pass his bad traits on to numerous fawns per year, while that Doe who carries bad genetics is limited to passing her bad traits to only one or two fawns per year.
While controlling genetics by culling inferior males in a wild herd may not address the affect of the bad female genetics in the herd, the math dictates that it is not next to zero.
To take this a little further, if a large tract of land is flush with numerous quality racks, don't shoot the big Does. They likely are carrying the genetics responsible for that flush of numerous quality racks in tractor of land. They are generally bred by the most dominant bucks with big racks if available.

As many as he can.
Does get pregnant from multiple bucks. Studies have found that twins usually have dna from different bucks. They are prey animals and they have evolved to survive.

Both the buck and the doe pass on dna and traits. Both good and bad. He will breed multiple does and she will be bred by multiple bucks.

And remember, many antler hunters don’t shoot does, they want antlers, so she will get to breed again.

Those fawns will go on the pass on genes. And who is to say they are bad? Just because one dude doesn’t like what the deer looks like? Those genes have survived multiple generations, must be good for something.

The only ones to get rid of are piebald deer, that is a proven issue that can cause many deformities in a deer.

Not necessarily true for herd management for many folks and properties. On many thousand acres yes. But, usually those bucks are pushed out of the herd come the breeding season. The mature bucks you see with does aren’t the offspring of those does you see them with. The mamas of those bucks are on another property. Getting bred by the children of the does you are seeing on your property.
Unless of course you have a big fence and lots of land.

Most 4pt rules aren’t to grow “trophy” bucks, they’re to let bucks grow hopefully past 2.5yrs old. Not every buck will grow a trophy rack, but it’s nice to see if they will.
If I want meat I’m shooting does and lots of them. SWGA has no shortage of deer so we don’t even call it hunting does, it’s I’m going doe shooting. We’re already half way to our goal on our property, so most everyone is now looking for that “trophy” buck, lol. A trophy for us is any buck over 5.5yrs old. We only killed 4 bucks last year and all but one was over 150”.
As Swamp stated, our State allows for one of any antler size and one with the 4pts or 15” rule. I think it’s helped people learn more about deer when they don’t shoot the first deer they see.

Let’s see if I can post pics of a known buck from fawn to a 3.5yr old this year…

Fawn


1.5


2.5 8pt


3.5 10pt (Barely)

Those pics of the piebald over the past 3 years are awesome. Thanks for posting!

…. There’s huntin

… and there’s animal husbandry


… people nowadays confuse the two

…. Only thing left to do is halter break him lol

It is simply NOT possible for hunters to affect/change the genetics in wild free-ranging whitetails.

For those that think you are accomplishing something by selective harvest of "inferior" bucks or does then by all means keep at it. It's keeping you hunting and making you feel like a deer manager!

BTW....it has been proven in research that two bucks can impregnate same doe...she has twins...each fawn has a different sire. So, consider that for what it's worth.

Try judging a 50" bull moose.

…. Deer ain’t 4h projects lol

… that picture ended up looking like that kid has his armed stuck all the way up that deers butt lol

…. And don’t go getting offended wannabe…. I’m just cuttin up

Yup!

Lol

Agreed 100%

Deer down here don't live that long. You'd go your whole life eating tag soup.

… I only shoot em if I think they are at least 7 years old … left footed … are bisexual and have irregular shaped testes

Only thing I’m offended for is that poor kid feeling up that deer!!

The ones with the irregular shaped testes are the true trophies. I’m surprised there’s not more mounts showing them off.

…. Don’t put that out there too much …. Next thing you know we’ll have testicular restrictions on em

Lol

The deer are lucky. It's the pigs that get castrated.

I count points after they're stretched out on the ground, that bs of gotta be so big is for the city folk.

One would have to be at least twice the size of the other to qualify as an irregular testes deer.

A non-typical.

… these deer farmers in here would be luring em into squeeze chutes and castrating them as yearlins if they thought it would make em grow bigger antlers lol

Hahaha

Once shot one with a drop testicle, should of had it mounted.

A missed opportunity for sure!

Speaking of that, and knowing your efficient use of the deer you kill Lugnut, do you use them "fries" too?

25 or so years ago eastern Washington went to a three point minimum (one side) for mule deer. Everyone whined about it for a few years. I don't hear anyone complaining now, all those spikes and 2x2's that were being shot are now surviving to become nice mature bucks.

Thanks, but no rocky mountain oysters for me.

Last time I went to MO. I saw the luckiest buck on the face of the earth. When I first saw him. I almost pulled the trigger..REAL big deer.about 18" wide..heavy beams...then I got the chance to count points..3 on one side and a big fork on the other. I understand the reason for having restrictions but this buck needed killing.

How many years it take? Been over 20 here since the nonsense started and the biggest difference I see is hardly anyone shoots one now,

That would be....nuts.....

^^^^^
hippie
It seems like only a few years. It doesn't necessarily boost the population, but the quality of the bucks improves. They are still subject to ups and downs, the downs usually due to bad winter; nothing you can do about that,

I don't raise deer but I do watch them grow up. A lot of the ones I watch, fed here from nipple to death and get shot on the public ground next door. I am the neighbor you want to hunt next door t, count on it.

We ate 10 deer since last season, buck and doe

Not true at all.

https://www.scdemocratonline.com/stories/pa-game-commission-releases-2024-2025-deer-harvest-estimates,174616

Lol, you believe their propaganda

I'd suggest you not say that part out loud. Someone might take that as gospel.

lol, almost forgot you’re a typical PA hunter.

Lol

Game commission could say the sun rises every morning and y’all would say it rises every three days at 2pm.

Lol

That's right, 50 years worth and know bs when I see it. Hundreds of customers thru the shop and hardly any shoot a buck anymore compared to before the war on Does.

Ok

To Wagglers point, what does get shot are larger on average but far and few in between.

The processors I know will tell you your
sc democrat post is full of puckie.

.. what is puckie?

Ok

Same thing as what the game comm. is shoveling Savell

Once again.

lol.


Could give a PA “hunter” $100 and they would complain that they have to get out their wallet to put it away. Just can’t make them happy and they wouldn’t be happy if you gave them whatever nonsense they wanted.

Yeah, nobody killing any bucks in PA .

lol

Savell....for the win!

Very good.And very true.

Puckie= Crap. Often identified by the specie that created the crap, bull and horse being the two most popular forms of crap used to describe a differing point of view from another individual’s or agency’s statement, opinion or policy.

I started hunting in AR in 1980 - two buck limit, no antler restrictions. From 1980 to 1995, the biggest deer I killed was a seven pt - by far most of them were spikes and forkhorns. We were killing almost all 1.5 yr old deer. Our 3 pt reg started around 1995. It took about 5 years to start seeing a difference.

This picture was taken last saturday night, when my son and his family came to hunt straight wall cart season. Three grand daughters from age 7 to 15, a boyfriend, my son, his wife, and me. The smallest cut off rack was a first deer for a seven yr old. The small rack next to the doe was a buck with injured nuts - but still a nine pt. I am the only one who didnt shoot but passed an 8 pt. Incidentally, we killed one of our six bigger target bucks - the one on the far right. APR’s have made a colossal difference here.

I was just saying the points were hard to count now that we have a few on camera that might speed up the identification process. LOL

I'm south of the antler point restriction of Missouri. I think since a few tested for cwd I'm in a killem all and let God sort them out county

WI did that kill all you can I’m not sure how that worked out it got quiet after that.

…. Here’s my boy with an illegal buck he shot …. Wasn’t wide enough

… but I sure didn’t tell him that …. All these antler worshippers trying to steal the joy out of it

…. Luckily he got it behind the house and no game wardens around to give him a ticket and confiscate the animal

But you post your illegal deer on here?

PF junior over here. Teaching them that some laws are ok to break if you feel like it .


I thought you were slightly better than that.


Laws the law for a reason there cousin.

Lol

….. limitations should be up … and I was proud of him making meat as it was intended…. Kid can’t measure a spread on a live deer to appease the trophy hunters

… I’ll stand by that all day long

…. Anyone that would try to steal his smile for a chance to kill that deer when it was older themselves is an (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) hole ….. and any law that encourages that is illegitimate

We have the same 15” rule for DE and a 3 point rule in MD.

Seen plenty of great deer that wouldn’t meet the requirements.

We also have a tag for those deer, so would be good using that tag.

Still gotta follow the law.

You and I are different though. I would lose my job and be in the newspaper for doing that.

Wife mooching is a hard life.


You should apply to be a green jeans, you could teach them a thing or two. If you’re willing to take the pay cut.

Sounds as stupid as a point rule Savell.

lol …. I couldn’t sleep at night if put on a badge

.. and we are very different…. You’re a yank lol

You don’t sleep now.