In your opinion?
I see alot of back and forth about americans not getting paid?
a fair wage and that if americans were being paid fairly that thered be no need for migrant or illegal workers.

So yall that speak of a "fair" wage. What is that number,

What is "fair" to you?

Brass tacks..how much would they have to pay YOU to get you to pick berries or milk cows??

A fair wage is whatever the employee and the employer agree upon. Nobody is forced to work at a job that they feel underpays them.

I wouldn't pick berries for anything, because it's a seasonal job. I'd milk cows for $34/hr. That's about what it takes to pay the bills and feed 5 kids here. I've never cared about what I did for a living, so long as it payed the bills.

The mistake is fair thinking. Life isn’t fair, get over it.

I start at $25, idk what's fair, it's hard to get people started at $25 so I may need to go higher. I have a low tolerance for bs from employees so that weeds out a lot of losers.

Problem is everyone thinks they should start at the top. They also have unrealistic expectations in their lifestyle choices.

Funny, I have low tolerance for employers. I work for people I like.

If you don't like the going wage from any given employer , learn how to make yourself more valuable to that employer. If you still don't like it , move along

This equates to fair wage

Forced wage rates skew everything


Unions are the worst , grown arse adults striking because they " think " they are more valuable then they are

Self motivated hard working individuals get screwed the worst in a union .......carrying total loosers along with them .....on thier journey upward , watering down their own potential.

Can't convince them of that though

This is very common

Showing up on time is the main hurdle for new employees, if your going to be late and don't even have the courtesy to call or text don't show up at all.

Well, I got paid $2.50/hr back in the late 80s for working on the neighbors farm. Farmer paid more ($7.50/hr) on the weekends for pitching manure with pitchfork. Needless to say I pitched as much poo as possible and I thought I was rich. Lol

I like a man with a clear thought!!

That's why you're a trapper, right?

It is not 1981. There are jobs everywhere and employees suck. That is why I get hired, because I don't suck as much.

This, however I would say that it is grossly unfair for govt collusion with employers to flood the zone with cheap labor or to fix prices in the free market exchange of labor for wages.

IMO, the labor market in the US should be strictly limited to US citizens and totally free of any mandated minimums or benefits.

I also think it unfair that labor can organize without consequence. All employment should be free will contracted between individuals.

A willing employer and a willing employee decide what a fair wage is.

I do agree that this simple concept has been screwed up by the government.

This is a conceptual question, it will never be answered the same way from any one !

Fair is what a person denotes they can usually get by on in my view, set by both parties with a growth plan
for more responsibility and work involved for the same amount of time at a higher rate

When I first started work it was washing dishes in a neighbors restaurant business, $2.00 on a grave yard shift for 9 hours
Was still going to high school, though the money was great for dong nothing, until the boss came around ad said you also have to bus tables keep the floor clean and what ever else the waitresses told you, UHM thats not how you laid it out when you hired me. My first summer job sucked after that ultimatum LOL

I slowly became educated that more money equated to more responsibility of what ever or wherever one worked, so I got in to company that had a apprenticeship program for four years and you graduated at their cost and owed one more year after that !

I stayed almost 20 years at that place eating up every once of new equipment in the welding and steel field, was top guy on the pay scale, which at the time still was not what a new beginner makes now in the same field, however I had my needs taken
care of owned my new home and had great transportation, then the place closed down in the mid 90's,

However due to my skills I drifted from one welding outfit to another until I met my last place of employment here at the copper mine, stayed five years and made more in that time than the 19 years at the other place plus all the skipping around as other doors closed. Home is payed for have a set retirement coming in higher than all the other places for my skill learned,. still got great transportation, and life is fairly good, except some medical problems due age and circumstances.

So in the end it's what you make of your self to say what is fair, how to live on what you decide to have, there is always bigger and better around very corner, except, all those doors don't actually let you see far enough into the company to say is this fair or not, so now days everything is a cat and mouse game. People jump the ship as well if something they feel is bothering them about the work place as well, there are so many new little things people worry about that don't amount to anything in the long run, where does that come from, figure that out and maybe things would return to well conceptual, LOL

AI and Bots are going to replace all the people that refuse to perform a days work.

We are all replaceable….

A fair wage is whatever it should cost fill various positions. Tractor Supply in AR pays less than $10 per hour for their floor employees. They always have several folks working so their pay is legitimate for his labor market. Tractor supply around New York City probably pays more. Let the labor market drive the price. Stupid to set a minimum wage and work backwards from there

I kind of agree. Going back to George Carlin again. He talked about this in his shows in the 90's I think. He said we'd keep taking jobs working more and more hours for less and less pay and the people would except it. Well, here we are.

It depends where you live. In the Puget Sound region of Washington you can't find a house to rent for under about $2500 a month, or one to buy for under $500K; most are much more. Gasoline is over $4 a gallon.
I'm sure some regions are much cheaper.

But a fair wage depends on the employers ability to earn a profit. If the employer can't make a profit the notion of a "fair wage" is irrelevent.

that was one of my Dad's favorite mantras. If I didn't get anything else from him, that was drilled into my very being.

do I LIKE it? No.

is it the Truth? without question.

Lots of people make enough money. They are broke because their money habits.

I think a fair wage depends on a few factors.
If you make enough money to pay the bill afford some hobby/it's and put money away that's typically a fair wage.
Depending on your occupation may have something to do with a fair wage.if your in a job where it's harmful to your health or a very physical demanding job you should be compensated accordingly.

Yep

If picking berries is similar to tying rebar, it wouldn't be cheap.

Today’s employees are often not work focused they are more concerned how little time they need to work to get paid. The problems that creates is the bigger issue. Looking for a few longer days to get more days off hurts coverage of shifts making overtime less likely because others are on either side of the shift that needs covering so the pool is tiny then.

Sick time is budgeted like vacation time so again more shifts need to be covered at the overtime rates making another employee needed as the costs and coverage are easier to manage with extra bodies around.

Shooting stars come and go they come in hot set the place on fire being #1 employee but burn out just as fast and then gone just as fast. When I started at the jail there was a sign up sheet for overtime at the end nobody wanted any overtime.

I think it's interesting that people say "Americans would line up to do this work if the pay was right", but yet, so far, only two people have actually said what sort of pay they'd do it for.

Perhaps the people that think Americans would line up to do these jobs, aren't willing to do these jobs themselves, even though they think other people will.

… put this in the other post … but gonna go on and stick it in here too

… here the Yankees and Californians come and take the higher paying jobs … while the mescins drive down wages on the rest

… I’m fortunate for the moment as I have a management position… but the writings on the wall when it comes to good ol boys like me

I'm too old to do the berry picking and the milking job is not well defined. Milk parlors are much different than what I used to do. Plus the question is about fairness, not what I would do the job for, depending on my other options this would change daily.

This is spot on in my experience, which is in industry. The union leadership works to minimize productivity to maximize the number of employees required to achieve the work because this maximizes union dues collected. I don't know about craft in construction.




Another accurate observation.

In the early 1900's, corporations treated their employees like indentured servants. The corporate heads made all the money and the workers had almost no upward mobility no matter how hard they worked. Now the unions want all the corporate profits. Both situations are wrong.
Without healthy profits corporations can't and don't invest in improvements and eventually loose business and close doors as they are out competed by others. Such is the outcome due to unions.

One of my sons works for Nucor Steel. Nucor profit shares with the employees, company and union. This maintains worker motivation for productivity and helps keep unions out. The better/smarter/harder working employees have the opportunity to advance. I think this is a good formula and Nucor has done well, so their employees have done well.

If one guys willing to work and give it his all and the guy next to him is just retired on the job putting out the minimum so what’s a fair wage then?

My Boss is giving me a raft of crap for picking up roadkill skunks. We may be parting ways. City boys....jeeze..

Some of the best advice I ever got was back in 1983. (If you can't make a living on 40 hours a week, you better find a better job).

As far as I'm concerned the idiots that are on strike at Starbucks are part of the problem. To really think that making an overpriced cup of coffee is a career or to expect $20 to $30 an hour is what's wrong in this country. Get a REAL job !!!!!

I can't believe people pay that much for coffee. Those same people complain that wages are to low but spend 5 bucks day or more for a .75 cent cup of coffee ....stoooooopid.

My Bunn coffee maker makes the coffee I look forward to drinking every morning. I can’t choke down that Starbucks 90W swill makes my gut ache.

I guess, Cathryn, a fair wage is what a person decides they are willing to work for. Companies have a couple of choices. They can pay the least that they are able to pay and still find employees, or they can pay higher wages to attract more dedicated/educated/experienced employees. If a company's business is flipping burgers, or picking berries, it'll be the former, as literally anyone can do it. If a company produces state of the art semiconductor chips, or operates on human brains, they will certainly pay more for talented help.

Employees also have ample choices. They can choose to work for a wage they are dissatisfied with or they can find a job that pays more. That may involve furthering their education, either via college, or a trade. But burger flippers, and berry pickers, don't have to be that for life... they choose to. They can also choose to make themselves more marketable, and therefore worthy of a higher wage. Or, they can do as you do and hustle to make money with side gigs... you do right well in that respect!

It's kinda hard to say how much it would cost for me to pick berries or milk cows. I physically cannot pick strawberries, as I found out when I tried to a few years back, lol. I was making about $20/hr picking the berries, but the physical strain of crouching for 8 hours was more than I could handle. But berries I could pick standing up? Sure... it sounds fun. And I've never milked a cow but would give it a try. As for cost? Well, right now I make $18/hr so I wouldn't work for less than that. BUT if I NEEDED the money to survive? Well, then I guess I would work for any wage... while simultaneously trying to find a job with higher wages.

I think a lot of people just can't understand that certain jobs are just that.....jobs... not careers... Some jobs are best filled by high school/college students or retirees that just want to get out of the house. They are not meant to raise a family on.

Regarding illegal immigration... again, companies that just need warm bodies will want to pay as little for that as they are able. And when illegal immigrants are willing to work for wages no American would, well, they are the ones that get the job, and as Savell said, bring down the wages for low income American workers. Because if the illegals weren't there, companies would have no choice but to raise wages to a point that Americans will work for.

Interesting concept....

I liked milking cows, it was easy put some smarts

Got payed 20 bucks a milking 30 years ago, took about 1 and a half hours

not counting drive time, good money for me at the time

Fast forward 30 years, I worked residential and government

I wouldn't get out of bed for the government for less than 100.00 per hour

Sometimes residential I charged nothing, it was my way of helping

There is no such thing as a fair wage, it's all what you wish to do

Don't believe snaring beaver in sensitive areas will be included in that

In today’s world I think the biggest factor in a hourly wage is health insurance, if the employer pays for it then obviously the price per hour would be lower.

The fair wage for picking berries is mathematical. How many containers of berries you can pick in an hour times the market value of those berries minus berry farmers production cost minus berry farmers profit margin.

Would I pick berries for that wage? That would depend on what my other options are. If none and I was hungry I guess I would.

An entry level employee does not deserve a "living wage" to raise a family. They deserve what the other millions of low skill entry level employees are paid. They need to take that job at that rate and be the best berry picker or ditch digger that ever was, then either work towards moving up the ladder or look for a better paying entry level job and do the same.
You'll never make it in this world if you don't continuously make every effort to better yourself.

hard to put a price on unskilled labor. Learn a trade.

hard to put a price on unskilled labor. Learn a trade.

Cathryn. Your question leads me to ask............"fair " to whom ?

I inferred from your post that you mean "fair' to the employee. But what about the employer ?

If I own a company that makes widgets and I hire you at 20/hr, you need to be able to produce enough widgets to cover your wages plus a return on my investment and other overhead costs of employing you. Otherwise it isn't 'fair' to me even though you may feel it is 'fair' to you.
It's a two way street.

It's kind of funny reading trappers say Mexicans work cheap. I personally have never met a Mexican trapper.

Wish everything would come back down, to improve the value of a dollar. If grocery store prices, fuel/oil , agricultural products would come down we could once again live on reasonable wages.

It’s all relative, this thing called inflation.

I don’t agree with a set minimum wage, should be no floor or ceiling for wages. Drives away values and creates laziness, entitlement.

That makes zero sense. Plus, you live in Alaska.

"I've never met a Somali welder." Which I haven't .

I prefer to bid everything

I've seen plenty of Mexicans skinning coon, beaver, coyotes and rats. Does that count?

Coat coon will shine again!

skilled labor needing some sort of certificates , 2 year degree , apprentice , hazard pay or deep on the job training , take the price of a 3 bed house not big ,1 maybe 2 bath , 1 car garage or carport just something a guy could raise a family in and divide by 3 and then divide that by 2000

some skill labor without as much skill , not the stuff specified above divide by 4


general labor divide by 5 (this is where I would put milking and general farm labor)


low impact labor , low or very minimal training , like cashiers , retail and such divide by 6

that is what you would basically need to make to live in the area you are in , so it isn't A number it is a what does it cost you to reasonably live some place.

the place has to support it's residents one way or it will support them the other in social programs or other drains on the economy.

Unions no longer exist to benefit the members. They exist to benefit the union employees and management. Each raise for the members is also a raise for management. I know a govt. employee union here in Alaska whose employees make 6 figures.

^^^This^^^.

You must be worth your wage.

No one deserves anything. You have the earn it. I wish they would take the word deserve out of the dictionary. It shouldn't be a word if you ask me.

I highly recommend keeping a record of the things you do that add value to the job. These would be things outside the normal performance. This is helpful during those year end reviews.

I always worked piece-rate. By the tree, board foot or truck load. If you were in a good area and put in some effort you made great money. I been in some jobs where no matter what you do you came up short. Some hourly people I know/see work so slow I just want to walk up and slap them.

[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/vgRKjFREHis[/video]

I lived through the inflation of the mid-70's.

prices do NOT generally come down (with very few exceptions). the best you can hope for is that your wages will eventually make up some of the difference, or you get promoted into better pay.

your $7 Big Mac isn't going to be $5 ever again.

There is another saying "you don't make a living you live on what you make."

By the hour Is the worse incentive. Fosters the im hear so many hours to get paid dont care how much gets done or if its efficient mentality. When I work for myself its by the job, lb, unit, or delivery weeks. Its the best deal fort the customer to know what they are geting and makes the worker want to be as fast and efficient as possible.


The I hire help if they are good help I typically buy lunch and if we hmget done early they get paid for the full day and often more than the agreed upon amount. This makes them more likely to want to come back to work next time I need help and let's them know I appreciate the good job they did. Well it used to. lately the help is my kids and they kind of expect dad is buying lunch.

Maybe if we weren’t tax so many times for the same dollar our money would go farther then what they collect is never gonna be enough all they want is more. Just use a few creative words to create more fake taxes when the can’t stop spending what the get now on worthless crap and pocketing it!

For the most part I agree but there are exceptions.

Example: when you are getting paid by the “piece” and your efficiency is dependent on on say a new hire at the scale house and their inefficiency has you going from 6 loads a day to 3, the employer that has the flexibility to change to by the hour will motivate employees to “ride it out”.

Most people have more of a spending problem than earning problem. They spend more they make and max out credit.

everyone wants to earn more naturally. Few learn basics to optimize tax laws, track their spending and budget. I mean its no fun and who has time for that..

But I will say your further ahead saving a dollar than earning another dollar. The dollar you have can become an employee earning you more. The extra dollar you make is great and can do the same BUT come with cost and you dont have that full dollar left.. First there is expense spent geting to work and time at work then deduct taxes so out of your dollar more you made you have 70 to 80c left. But the dollar you saved you still have it all plus returns it has generated working for you.

Taxes are a huge expense for w2 employees. The tax codes favors interpreters, investors and businesses owners. Learn how to use this to your advantage and build wealth.

I have done nasty hard and dangerous jobs a lot of my life. Alway took the best thing I could find untill another opportunity presented its self. Somtime that was stopping and asking if they were hiring on the side of the road. but my best jobs have come from networking. Basically someone told me about an opportunity I otherwise would not have known about.

Some of my jobs were not worth the pay and no benefits they had especially for the risk. Building cell towers for under 15 an hour for example. But it was what was available and paid the best for me at the time and I liked traveling briefly.


I think your question is easier answered. If job A takes no skills and is easy and clean in heat and ac environment say fast food. for 15 an hour. Job B is nasty dirty in a chicken plant for 15 an hour few Americans will pick the dirty job. they have beter options. Illiegals dont have the option so take the nasty hard job for low pay. If they didnt then the job would pay more/offer other incentives to get employees or go out of business if they could not do so profitably.

Back in the 70’s, I had just graduated college with a degree in wildlife management and my first job was with the fed govt as a gs 4 making $3.25 per and it was a seasonal job, nine months a year. I was off in the winter. I lived in a tent and trapped all winter and moved back to my $40 per month house with no heat or air and no water in winter. I made about 2 times as much money trapping for three months as I did working for nine months. Of course, I kept my govt job, even though it paid half as much because I was pretty sure fur prices would not hold up forever. Fur market crashed in 88 and about the same time I went full time and kept progressing up the ladder until I retired. A lot of guys I knew just assumed there were going to be $25 southern coons forever.

Whatever you agree to work for . My dad always said if you’ll work for a dime or a million dollars that’s what you’re worth to someone

"Fair" is when you pay what something is worth. Some employees are worth $100 per hour to their employers. Some are worth 10¢. There are no one number that's fair. It's like asking what's a fair price for a meal. Lobster or Cheeriosl? Everyone who complains that they aren't paid fairly doesn't understand that their value is up to them, not to the employer. If you're worth more, somebody else will be happy to pay more. Employeers are looking for more valuable employees. If nobody is willing to pay more for your work, you're already making what's your worth - that's fair.

Why wait till the review? I went to HR two times and got two raises outside of that time frame.

You are paid what the job is worth. I agree with White17.

Example is McDonald’s. Staff demanded higher wages. Now McDonald’s has cut there staff with Kiosk and apps. This trend will continue.

As higher wages are demanded. Employers will find ways to reduce staff. Accounting, bookkeeping, is next on the list.

This is one reason I believe in a sales tax vs an income tax, then I control how much I I pay in tax on my income.

No one has mentioned benefits such as health insurance, health savings accounts, employer funded retirement, employer retirement matches, etc. I’m lucky that I make a decent wage but the none cash benefits are really what benefits my family.

Someone mentioned earlier that your paid what your worth or the area job supports. I do agree but folks may get stuck on the dollar amount on the paycheck vs the overall compensation package.

Good for you, most large companies don’t work that way unless you change positions.

here the mill starts out at 30 an hour and can't get people to work shift work, with benefits

Folks have been led to believe they can live “the good life” without making any sacrifices.

I was thinking this most of the post. Strawberry picking may and some farm work comes with room/and or board. I worked many jobs that include room and board. Some I chose for the better food and living conditions. Some have included a free beer package. Fortunately, money has rarely been the sole determiner in the jobs I take. I don't really need much to maintain my low quality of life.

Some of yall have some interesting ideas

After reading the entire pist some of yall have some screwed up ideas too.lol

Well you can't make a post like this and those replies to it and then not elaborate Cathryn, lol. Which ideas do you find to be screwed up, and which aren't?

A fair wage in many rural areas is different than most of the bigger cities.
Be an asset to your employer, show up do the job be a problem solver and not the problem get along with coworkers and treat customers well. If you can do these things you will be paid well.

Fair depends on skill sets, ambition, a lot of things really. But anything less than $75 an hour…and you won’t see me around, I have better things to do

Interesting thread. A lot of variables in our country to consider. Career jobs v. temp jobs. Bottom line at different times in your life "fair" might be different things. People going to college might take a side job for $20 an hour with no benefits part time just to help out with bills but the same person who has graduated might not take a job in their field for under 72 Thousand a year. The biggest problem I have seen is the cost of insurance and housing. Homes that aren't worth $80 K are selling for $180 K. Almost impossible to try and live on a $20 an hour job and if somehow you can it is not likely there is anything to put away for emergencies or retirement.

I think it’s crazy that the local sawmill advertises starting pay at $22 an hour while people who clean houses (short term rentals) are getting $40 an hour. If you can find someone. There’s probably a thousand str’s from Livingston to Gardiner.

Outsider looking in but $7.25 minimum wage in many places. People have to flip burgers or stock shelves at Walmart all day long just to have that days' pay be enough to buy a new baseball cap. I guess I am on the side, that money like that isn't exactly a fair wage.

Flipping burgers and stocking wal-mart shelves aren't jobs meant to support families.

Learn a trade, get skills, make yourself more valuable.

Too many people are lazy.

A valuable employee:
Show up on time.
Don't quit before quitting time.
Don't fight with coworkers. (leave the crazy at home)

Seems easy but it's not easy to find.

I never said it was a job to support a family. I said it was a wage that isn't overly "fair". However, thinking there are no people in such jobs trying to support a family is foolish.

Not to mention the fact that virtually no one is getting paid those wages. My state has one of if not THE lowest wage in the country and Walmart here starts at $15... fast food not sure now but was over $10 years ago. Minimum wage (a stupid law) determines the least amount a worker can be paid but when no one is willing to work for that, companies must pay more if they need workers. It's been a very long time since I've heard of a job starting at minimum wage... like... over a decade.

Both my parents finished their working careers at Walmart. They didn't have to. What makes you think all the people who work for low wages do it for the money? Lot of retired people do it.

I think the NY minimum is 16, or 17 bucks now.... Hard for a small business to stay in business with the high rents and utilities....

FYI even if somebody is trying to support a family of four on 7.25 an hour, that is not all the income they may be living on.

" For 2025, the federal poverty level (FPL) for a family of four is $32,150.
This figure is used to determine eligibility for various government programs, including Medicaid, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), and the National School Lunch Program."

Throw in EITC and Child credits and probably other stuff.
Section 8 housing

Canada is not the only socialist country on the planet.

Canada has west Virginia wages(average income),,,with San Francisco home prices

,,,,, getting worse by the day

You guys are trying to put words in my mouth, lol. I just simply said that the minimum wage rate in many places "seems unfair" and that some unfortunate people are likely stuck in it. Nothing more really, never said all Walmart workers weren't retired folks etc.

As for the whole Mississippi, minimum wage things, beats me how many work for it, but it's easy to look up and see that the average income in MS is 30% lower than the US average so i am sure the odd soul is. lol

Cost ofiving in Mississippi is also lower.

I don't know many jobs that pay minimum wage. Usually only young kids just starting out and even then many kids still make more than minimum wage.

Pretty obvious a lot off you haven’t run a business that requires more than family or a handful of employees.

Stick to Canada, I don't know anyone who pays minimum wage.

My daughter works at Walmart full time. 23 bucks an hour with insurance.

I have never worked for minimum wage in my life. Every place i worked even washing dishes part time in high-school as a kid payed a dollar or 2 more.

This thread is crazy. How many of the posters have 20 + employees? the issue is what you need to make a living versus what a employer can pay. cost of living does not reflect on what the employer can charge the customer. thus all the tariffs being put on countries. we bring in cheap/child labor crap and have been forced to compete. labor unions are a joke and don't care about this factor. I am in the automotive business. I live it.