I was informed yesterday from my sister,,
That our sister in law has had enough and left my brother and is filling for divorce.
He’s already lost his first wife because of the drinking… and he’s been to prison twice because of it.
Over the years I’ve plead with him to get help,, and he always has the excuse that it’s too late.
I had a glimmer of hope last year, when he finally went to a place I suggested called “ celebrate recovery “.
It’s a faith based organization that helps people with alcohol and substance abuse issues. And it’s very very successful,,, and doesn’t cost anything.
I had talked with him a few weeks later to see how he was doing,,, and he said he stopped going,,, he didn’t need their help anymore.
Sometimes I guess you can’t reach people… as much as it hurts. I’ll never stop praying for him though… just makes me sad.

Prayers sent

Nothing will change until he commits to change an alcohol is smarter, sexier, braver, tougher, talented and they know what they are doing at all times just ask them.

Do the take away/hide test to see how committed they are to alcohol the transition to needy is quick, apparent and desperate.

Man, that is sad.

Lost my brother to alcohol. Tried to help him, even had a AA higher up friend of mine offer to pick him up for meetings. "There's nothing wrong with me" was his go to..Hated everyone and blamed them for all his misfortunes.

Finally died alone in his house, we don't know how long he laid there.Was 64....

You can't help people that don't want to change.

People don't decide to change until they hit what, to them, is rock bottom. Unfortunately, for some people, rock bottom is death.

Then some people die from withdrawals when they think they can quit all by themselves. Alcohol has worse withdrawals than most hard drugs and can absolutely be fatal. Somebody in that kind of shape probably needs a stay in the hospital for at least a week.

The missus has been sober several years now. It got pretty rough there at the end of her drinking.

Currently she's got a first cousin that just recently got stabilized and out of danger of dying but has pretty much fried what brain he had left from drinking. He'll be more or less institutionalized the rest of whatever life he has left.

BTW, it's not always something you see coming. Not all start out as a two fisted drinker or daily partaker. The missus was a social drinker at most for most of our marriage. Actually didn't like alcohol at all. But something along the way got to her, either depression or the danged anti depressants the pill pusher proscribed her and it became an everyday all day thing.

Alcoholism is a disease, and with proper treatment a person can recover from it. For some it's believing in a higher power or an intense, inpatient twelve-step program; for some it's attending AA meetings; and for some, sadly, it's death. Everyone's definition of rock bottom is as different as there are people who are practicing alcoholics.

Don't be an enabler. It's tough love, but unfortunately, some will not recover until their support system disappears.

Sorry to hear foxkidd. Sure sounds like you've done everything you can to steer him in the right direction.

one thing I have learned is you can't help someone who doesn't want it , many people need to learn this,

My wife has lost 3 of 5 brothers to alcoholism!

Some people never learn .....

Now at 78, I have greatly reduced my alcohol consumption. When I drink I can’t go to sleep, which makes me very mad at myself.

No help for them (alcoholics) until they want help

Unfortunately some never reach the point of wanting help

Hi KIdd this story is too familiar. Prayers sent, while there is still life there is hope.

Cancer is a disease. Drug and alcohol consumption is a choice that can become an addiction.

Ticks me off when people call a deliberate choice a disease like the people have no choice. They do and they choose that path. Unlike childhood cancer or others that had no choice in the matter.

To me it's just giving them an excuse calling it a disease to get out of personal responsibility.

To the op you can't make the change for them they have to want to quit and really mean it not just say it becues they know they should.

I’ve not even had a beer in 50 years and my wife’s allergic to alcohol that’s probably why we are still married. Never had the problem it just never made sense to work so hard and to feel bad later and spend money doing it.

I never understood the appeal of it and the cost people pay that gave up everything to keep doing it at all costs.

If someone says they’re quitting for their spouse or their kids, it generally doesn’t work. You have to quit for yourself. This took me about 3 months to realize. If you quit for someone else, you’ll be in the bottle next time life gets a bit rough.
Yet some say fast food is more dangerous…….
Alcohol may not be the direct cause of issues, but it certainly is the root cause of most. How boring would an officers job be if there was no booze?
If you know what a disease is, you’ll understand why they consider alcoholism as one.
Sorry to hear foxxkid

I agree with this mindset. Some alcoholics decide to give up alcohol cold turkey. They wake up one day and decide that they're done drinking. Nobody can decide to give up cancer. Nobody wakes up one day and decides "you know what? Screw this lung cancer stuff. I'm done with it. As of today, I no longer have cancer".

Think what you'd like; you are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree.

One of the difficulties in recognizing alcoholism as a disease is it doesn't quite seem like one. It doesn't look, sound, or act like most diseases we know. And, generally, alcoholism remains hidden and resists treatment.

However, alcoholism has been recognized for many years by professional medical organizations as a primary, chronic, progressive, and sometimes fatal disease.

Sorry to hear of this. Prayers to you and your family!

c traps confused gender identity used to correctly be considered mental illness by those medical professionals but today look at it. Covid Vax was said safe and effective and recommend for children that had little to no risk.


You can believe what you want and give the addicta a victim statas if you like. To me it really cheaper those with real issued they can't walk away from.

Sure.

Prayers sent.

Not much a person can do except keeping strong for those around him.

WS

100% Agree PF

They labeled it a disease to validate and get insurance to pay

100% Choice to start

How does a person catch the disease of alcoholism?

One sip at a time?

I agree with PF. Alcohol is an addiction, not a disease. It was started by a choice, just like smoking. As Loosegoose said, You can choose to stop an addiction, but you can't choose to stop cancer or any other disease you didn't have a choice in getting.

How far down that rabbit hole do we want to go , my friend ? There's a myriad of diseases that can be traced to lifestyle . Not saying I disagree with you as it is a choice , but so is obesity. COPD and emphysema is often linked to smoking . I knew two guys who died young due to complications from diabetes. They both managed it poorly and died pieces by piece. Choice ?

Some of these disease points makes sense, but unfortunately people on Tman didn't write the definition of disease. Love it or hate it, it's a disease.

The definition is- A condition that impairs normal function_ So,,,If I eat poison mushrooms,,and get sick as a dog vomiting and diarrhea,,,did I have a disease?NO..Same as ingesting alcohol.Not a disease.You might end up with an addiction,,,but thats not a disease.

Oh crap, looks like I'm wrong. I thought alcohol impaired normal function. Thanks for the correction.
You got the definition right, but you're saying it's wrong? Look up as many as you want, it's still the same....lol.
Have you been drinking?

A broken arm impairs normal function, but I don't think anyone would consider a broken arm to be a disease.

Just look it up in any dictionary you want, read the definition, it'll avoid redundant comments. If you don't agree with it, motion your gov to change it to reflect what you think is the right one. Easy peasy!

What a stupid thing to argue about.

Kind of how I think. Disease or addiction there's one thing for sure, alcoholism ain't good.
Sorry to hear this is happening with your brother.

There is a genetic component to alcoholism. People with a family history of alcoholism have a higher probability of alcoholic behavior themselves, accounting for a predisposition of around 50%.

There are people who are capable of having one drink in a social setting (to ease anxiety, etc.) but no more, because they don't enjoy the experience of being drunk. Ask an alcoholic if they would want just one drink. For an alcoholic, getting drunk is the point.

You can call it a disease or you can call it a disorder; I'm not sure why it's such a big deal what you choose to call it.

Booze destroys a lot of lives. Sorry about OP's brother.

One of the best decisions I ever made years ago was to never have another drink. Not even a drop. I cannot think of a good decision I made drunk.

Your welcome,,and no,,I havent been drinking YET.

Not realy.Calling it a disease is the easy way out.Is alcoholism bad and destroys lives,,yes,,but that does not make it a disease.

Unless they changed the definition of disease, that’s only your opinion……which holds no water…..lol

I didnt make it up,,,I looked it up.You should do the same.

For those of you that are podcasters, I would recommend Andrew Huberman. He’s a Professor of Neurobiology at Stanford and his podcasts are all focused on human health. He presents only fact-based topics, is never political, and has a great one on Alcohol and its effects on the human body.

Prayers Sent !!

Can't argue with that.

As a person who drinks to much and has gone lengths of time not drinking I can tell you I would be insulting others by calling my choice a disease. Also calling it genetic would be repulsive in my mind. I like it, admired role models who did it and was cool to some I wanted to impress for it. Simple. I should not like it (it hurts your health/your sacred temple), I am a bad role model for it and it is not making me cool. Simple.

Excuses blur truth's and make things not simple.

Lost many people to disease. My mom was lost to disease at a pretty young age. People need to pull butt's out of rears. My real life experience so far. Not my feeling.

And yet, they just keep it up.

https://youtu.be/e3IrJMumbWc?si=E4Rpi7wwzvNq1m1j

Norm MacDonald says it’s a disease. End of discussion.

Do you reckon that people with family history of alcoholism might just be exposed to alcohol more and at a younger age?

Mental illness is a disease or maybe it's a disorder? It could be mental illness not being able to control your impulse or cravings.

Why is it important and words matter? when language and definitions get changed Typically it's not for our good. Interpretation of shall not be infringed. The definition of vaccine geting changed are 2 things that come to mind.

You must not know who Norm MacDonald was.

Nope bus just clicked on the link and found him funny and makes the point perfectly.

I'm sure that's part of it. But there have been published scientific studies demonstrating a genetic component.


https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4056340/



Acknowledging that some people have genetics working against them isn't absolving them of the choices they make and it doesn't discount the environmental pressures that drive people to drink.

My grandfather mom's dad drank himself to death at 56. My dad has had issues with drinking. Yet never found anything that could get it's hooks in me(except women)

I do believe genetics play a big part in addiction as well as environment and people your around. But it's not 100% ultimately it every individuals choice.

I have lost so many friends, family, and community members from Alcohol. Ive had friends freeze to death, drown, stabbed, shot, clubbed, ran over with snow machines, go to sleep and pass, liver cancer, liver failure, a few take their own lives. I helped dig their graves, build their caskets, search for their bodies, sit with their dead bodies waiting for the cops, help with the investigations. This does not include the far too numerous cases of assault, abuse, drunk driving, child neglect, elder and child abuse, theft, B&E and more.
My native people far too many times traded their cultural way of living for the bottle. In my short 36 years have witnessed more than most should ever see, and 99.99 percent of it comes from alcohol. I pray that everybody is safe out there

Absolutely! Choice. Your choices, like alcohol consumption, or smoking, or eating improperly may LEAD to legitimate diseases, but it was choices that caused them!!

Most people on here know I have zero use for PF.... but this post of his was spot on.

Whether your addiction is alcohol, weed, porn, cigarettes, hard drugs, food, sex, gambling...or what have you....

Those are ALL choices. NONE of them are diseases.... as you have the option, at any time... to say that enough is enough and you're better than this....

Not so with cancer, kidney failure, heart disease. etc.

I don't think alcoholism is a choice. Having that initial drink is a choice. Often times a choice made so to fit in with the crowd. A choice pushed by many folks on this very forum. Just read the alcohol thread.

Norm was the best.

lol…..you looked it up but are obviously having trouble understanding what it says. Your posting answers that contradict what you’re saying, that’s why I asked if you were into the sauce.

Your last sentence reminds me of some of the clips I've seen on TV where the guy said, "Here, hold my beer ". Then does something really stupid nearly killing himself.

Not all of the not-so-good decisions rose to that level but I had a few!

I believe with an alcoholic the addiction becomes a physical addiction, not just a mental addiction.

I'm presently not physically addicted.

Many alcoholic types will say they don’t have a problem but deny the immediate access to alcohol and they fall apart quickly not a criticism just a fact. They justify the right or defy logic to make their case.

Our gun club broke up because some members would, could not put it down before shooting trap it seemed they should be in treatment if they could not wait a 1/2 hour to drink. We asked then to wait until they were done shooting then have at it but they would not budge. The same crew took bee to the kids pheasant hunt their logic was they were not shooting to it was not an issue.

We went from 17 teams down to 3 teams after that and shortly after that the drinkers moved on, like said nothing good comes from drinking.

I worked at this paper mill. 12 hour shifts. There was a couple guys who had coolers in their cars with beer. After finishing shift and off the clock , they would crack one open for the ride home.

They lived 5 minutes from the mill. Not drunk behind the wheel , but risking getting a DUI on the ride home.
They couldn't wait 5 minutes until they got home.

^^^^….. Half the people in this county ride around with a cold beer at all times

When I was doing my Journeyman's evaluation at our training center, me and the instructor were running after hours while I was finishing building my open delta bank. After I was done, he said we should have a beer, too bad the bar is 1/2 hour away. I told him to hang on, pulled my truck into the compound and we had a few under the radar....lol. I always had a bottle or a cooler full of beer close by. As a trainee, that was expected.

Worked at a dealership in IL the mechanics would go on “road taste”not road test and drank during their lunch hours. The same guys working on people family cars they thought nothin of it.

I once quit a job because the dude I was commuting with was stopping at the gas station for a sixer for the ride home. We had an hour commute on the interstate in a company car and he downed the whole sixer on the way home. One day of that was enough, and when I discussed this with the owner of the dealership, his response was basically "oh well, the guy is making me lots of money". No way was I going to work for a place with that attitude.

Must be a cultural thing…. Around here it’s not uncommon at all for grown men to have an ice chest in the bed of the truck full of beer to drink on all day … nobody blinks an eye

If he Hogged down the whole 6 pack with out offering you a couple,then I dont blame you.

There are both genes that make you more likely to be an alcoholic and what they call protector genes, which make you less likely to be an alcoholic. Personal choice is still a big factor in alcoholism.

Keith

100%…..what a A hole!

I don’t know about the genetic propensity about the addition to alcohol, I’m not a doctor, scientist or anything like that. My grandfatheron my dads side,was a mean alcoholic ..but my dad hardly ever touched it,, had 2 uncles who have passed away, who were alcoholic, ( lost their wives because of it too) .
I can have a shot or two of whiskey about once or twice a Month and that’s about it.
My sister doesn’t use alcohol at all.
So I don’t know,,,is it or not,,, the genetic propensity??
All I know is that I just wish he could be physically free of it.. he’s destroyed a lot of things in his years of drinking and even if he manages to get his life together,, going to be a lot of people with hard feelings

It's sad for lives destroyed or hurt by alcohol abuse ....but let's not forget some of he good alcohol can do too. Many a time a parcel of beers has relieved the stress I felt from work. And finally, I knew a guy that got drunk at a 4th of July party at the US embassy in Quito and missed his morning flight back to Cuenca the next day. That TAME flight hit trees in the fog coming in to land and crashed. All died.

Alcohol positively saved his life.

I can't imagine filleting fish after a full day of fishing without a cold beer,..it seems so sacrosanct.
It feels good in it's reward,..despite

When I was ironworking the co workers were mostly hard drinking and drugging individuals. I had been offered a travel Forman job building smoke stacks for the company I had worked for on 3 stacks. The pay would have been well over 6 figure and and an additional 35k untaxabe in for traveling expenses. Now this was 20 years ago and that was a lot more money than it is now.

I was very tempted to take the job offer. It also included not only paying my union benefits pension and annuity but also company pension in addition to.

My daughter was 5 and wife was pregnant with my son that was killed in the wreck later. I looked at all the old hands 40+ remember I was 25 or so. and saw them all divorced Ann heading to the bar after work most with iced down beer waiting in the truck for quiting time. I HAD TO DO SOME Hard thinking

I didn't want to be like those guys wanting to stay married and not be in the place they were. I didn't want to watch my kids grow up in pictures.

I figured it would get old being in a hotel or campground every night and at some point I would end up at the bar playing pool or throwing darts. now and them. That would turn into every day and that one or 2 beers would become 10 to 18. I also know my faults and that the females in said bars would end up spending to much time with me especially if I had a few. And like I said I wanted to stay married.

And yes there were times in the summer I would knock down a few tall boys on the way home my last ironworking job comes to mind. 6 pack of 24 Oz beer some days down within a few hours of being home. Never addicted never a problem to put down. Much more and more often than just that one drink. Blows me away how many of you want to act like people have no choice or control over their choices and actions.

So I declined the job offer. Found out about my job at the same time and put in for it been here 19 years . Life is about choices.

Had a buddy that was a bouncer at a bar he said any married guy that worked there was divorced when they left the job.

Same here Savell. When I get done with the tractor and planting in the evenings, first thing I do is blow off all equipment and grease it and lube it. Sure is nice to have a cold one in the cooler on the flatbed.

Pretty much every farmer, bohemian, and working class man operates that way as well around here. I don't mind working with or hiring a drinker that shows up on time; its the drugheads that I can't deal with.