This is a big 180 by Trump. Assuming he sticks with it, good for him. Way too late but we should always stand against Putin and his kind. On everything.



Russia hits back at Trump after his sudden strong support for Ukraine - The Washington Post https://share.google/oiILKegHuZBMnLvhQ

PS--I don't want to send any troops and I don't want to spend a disproportionate amount of money. Just so we're clear.

Wow!

If he took that stance before the election I would have voted him again. It was his Ukraine stance that prompted me to not vote for him this time.

Chess moves .........pay attention

He's laying it all out...
AntiGov is right ^^^

I thought trying to get results through Diplomacy first (rather than intimidation/brute force) was a GOOD thing!

Once it became clear that playing "nice" wasn't going to work, now the pressure can be applied.

C'Mon, BC...you never start right off with bile and vitriol in a courtroom, do you? (well, maybe YOU do)...the best lawyers try to get a witness to willingly present your client's point of view, rather than through browbeating.

Art of let's make a deal.....

Trump’s original stance when he was campaigning and early months of presidency were to negotiate the end of the war. Repeated attempts failed - but not because of his efforts. His comments continue to reveal he has become increasingly frustrated with Putin, who continually gave hope and then did the opposite. Most countries in europe will not fully abandon russia - they keep funding the war because they will not stop buying russian oil. Sanctions are not effective because other countries are not willing to sacrifice.

This is no different than a Dr or a Mechanic attempting the most favorable method of fixing a problem, and when that doesnt work - go to step two.

BlaineCounty doesn't have President Trump figured out yet. When this President puts out anything on social media he and his staff are already many steps ahead.

For an attorney you sure seem to have a hard time understanding the actions of a great leader.

There are the practical applications of sanctions. Remember the Warsaw pact? Almost all those countries are connected to natural gas to Russia. If countries stop buying Russian oil, expect to pay more at the pump. Just Sayin!

Maybe telling that Trump never mentions the Z-Man in his statement?

Statement reads to me like Ukraine can do it, with NATO's support.
And we support NATO, with weapons "to do with what they want".

Im wondering if Ukraine has enough man power left anymore to drive Russia out? But I do believe Trumps talk is more about rhetoric to force Putin to negotiate

Y'all have got to stop explaining away every flip flop and stupid move by Trump with the 4D chess/Art of the Deal (which Trump didn't even write) responses.

It's lazy. And naive.

But I agree, Yes Sir, it may just be talk to get the others talking. It's still a 180.

I sincerely hope Trump's new plan works.

But, but...if his "new plan" doesn't work then you'll have another card to play in future discussions....

Stop getting involved in foreign wars..................


It's not our problem.

Why doesn't Ukraine join NATO? Putin has made it clear that he doesn't want them to do that.

4D chess is the perfect analogy, 4D Chess makes no sense, like much of Trumps social media ramblings.

once again, you only address PART of the defense of Trump.

He was trying to negotiate an end to a war without further bloodshed. why can't you admit that he tried Diplomacy first?

(I know the reason...it doesn't fit your prejudicial narrative)

So you guys who are happy with Trump’s stance now, dont think he should have tried diplomacy and negotiations first?

they will rationalize and deny, deny and rationalize; in order to fit their preconceived notions (prejudice).

it's their MO...prove me wrong.

if Ukraine were accepted into NATO during this time of active warfare, we (and the other NATO countries) would be legally bound to join the war against Russia.

can you say "World War III"?

This is how they take out Eastern Europe who refuses to rush to their own demise by bringing in Africans/Mid East "refugees"

I don't understand what you mean.

please clarify.

They can't. Countries that are actively at war aren't allowed to join NATO.

I believe diplomacy and negotiations have been on going since 2014.

Western Europe is speeding their demise by importing dissimilar populations, Eastern Europe is resisting that. A large war would destroy Eastern Europe and keep the EU together and Western Europe leading despite their poor decisions.

"Sanctions are a key instrument of diplomacy, used by states and international organizations to express disapproval, pressure actors to change behavior, and uphold international norms without resorting to military force.
They serve as a non-military means of coercion, ranging from diplomatic measures like expelling diplomats or closing embassies to economic restrictions such as trade bans and asset freezes."

FYI

I don't know what your media is telling you, but the best thing Trump could do would be to remove this corrupt regime in Ukraine.
If Ukraine had 8 Million ethnic US-Americans (like it had ethnic Russians), what would you do if they were attact by these rassist folks? You would stand by them, as Putin does with the Russians.
The Galicians you are supporting with your money and weapons used to fight at Hitler's side und killed thousands of Jews and Polish and are still worshipping Nazi collaborator Stephan Bandera.

Always good to see a view from another angle.
Thanks for posting Manfred

why are we still buying items from Russia?

Because the U.S. needs the stuff. It is only 3 billion worth of trade. Not going to hurt Russia much by not buying 3 billion worth of products.

So why do we get so up set when other countries buy from Russia dont they do it for the same reason we do?

The U.S. is just trying to put the squeeze on Russia. We have little economic squeeze on Russia since we have very little trade with them.

Trump is trying to get the european countries to boycott Russia, apply economic pressure, and get more skin in the game. ( They won't)

Europe wants us to fight Russia for them, kill our soldiers, and hopefully pay the bill as well.

It's okay to take out Russia as long as it's our choice, but not Europe's.

Europe has more skin in the game than the U.S. They have been switching to high priced LNG. All this affects them way more than the U.S. Other than Texas making bank selling Europe LNG.

We've crashed our agriculture exports to China whos invested a pile into other BRICS countries (Brazil) in response to the U.S trade wars over Ukraine. There's currently talk about a "once in a generation" farm crisis.

Thank you Trump for all your tariffs.

The U.S became an unreliable source of grain and meat when tariffs started in 2018 in regards to Russian/Ukrainian war. Once that ball was in motion the U.S had little ability to stop it.

they will be ok

https://farm.ewg.org/search.php

As it stands, with Zelinski in control, the conflict is not much different than what exists in many American inner cities. Not much more than a gang war without a "good guy ".
Putin is annoyed that Gorbachev gave away the empire before he got the chance to become emperor (premier).
It is often said that Russia lost 20 million lives in WW2, but that was actually USSR and many of those people were from places that are no longer controlled by Moscow.

No more money to Ukkraine!

Let's all be honest Putins ultimate goal is to rebuild mother Russia, and is starting with Ukraine

Agreed. Trump should put the money where his mouth is and end the war in a day and stop funding this war completely.

I disagree. I think Putin's ultimate goal has not changed and is the same thing he has been harping on for 20 plus years, and that is he will not allow Ukraine to join NATO and allow the US to install a military base in his backyard. He's been explicit about this for decades. He sees NATO as an enemy and does not want them on his doorstep; it is his redline as he has stated repeatedly.

Secondarily, I think he does care for the 8-10 million ethnic russians that are in far east Ukraine that do hold allegiance to Russia. They are Russian Orthodox Christians.

Deflects attention from Israel stance .

Yes Sir your are right..... and Epstein and the Tucker debacle they are know facing regarding foreign powers.

OP, do you honestly think Trump is serious? Ukraine is a lost cause, Trump is playing the Europeans....at least I hope so; otherwise he is delusional.

The NATO thing backfired on him if that was his goal. (Which I don't believe)

How so did it backfire?

I'll believe it as soon as I see the US stop sending money to Ukraine and cut all ties. Whether you like Trump or not, we all know he is all talk and his Truth Social posts cannot be taken seriously.

Sweden and Finland Joined NATO because of the invasion of Ukraine.

And all the others are backing NATO by double what they were financially.

As far as not sending money, that has already stopped.

NATO is now buying arms from us and they're giving them to Ukraine.

NATO is us. Who is the biggest dog in NATO?

If we pull out, NATO and Ukraine is doomed.

Point being Chancey,

It backfired because he pushed two countries to join NATO and others to step up their funding.

I personally think it was a land/resource grab.

He thought he would just march in and take it like he did when Obama wad in, but he wasn't as strong as he thought he was and Ukraine was stronger than he thought so here we are 3 1/2 years later

Good, then hopefully the US can pull out and we have the money and time to take care of the western hemisphere and not worry about a place an ocean away. Kind of like the Monroe Doctrine.

^^^ This! The idea that the US or Europe for that matter could force Russia out of Ukraine is just delusional. Ukraine doesn't have the manpower left and the west doesn't have the munitions capacity even if Ukraine had more men. The sooner Ukraine capitulates to Russia's demands the better of a deal they get. Now it looks to me like what is keeping it going is the Ukraine leaders seeing how long they can keep diverting money to their personal accounts before the whole thing collapses. Cut off the money and the war ends. I blame Kellog for Trump being so obtuse but Trump has to take a lot of the blame himself. I thought better of him.

^^^^^^
This.
And this.

I hear guys like Jack Keane saying that Ukraine is winning this war; either he is living on another planet, or he thinks we are all fools. FOX only airs these types of opinions; they booted anyone who doesn't tow the line, like Tuckerson

Robert Barnes (I think a lot of him.) says the Trump truth mentioned in this thread is pure sarcasm. As in Ukraine is so strong they can push Russia clear back to Moscow. so they don't need us.
I hope this is true.

It's very funny to read you. Write more.

There is a mouse trap in the house! There is a mouse trap in the house!

NATO was developed to defend against Russia after WW2. Also look at the Cuban missile crisis. We were/did put missiles in Turkey. Russia started putting missiles on Cuba. We blockaded, Russia agreed to back off and remove missiles from Cuba if we agreed to remove our missiles from turkey. I believe what Chancey said is correct about Putin not wanting Ukraine in NATO. Russia didn't invade Ukraine until blabber mouth Harris stated that Ukraine would be welcomed to NATO with open arms. I hope the US pulls out of NATO. Come on, we fund it.

What happened to the Nord Streams? War is profitable if you have a pile of natural gas to sell and new customers. It is bad if you have coon to sell though.


Nord Stream 2 was built ( by Germany, Switzerland and Russia) to get around transit fees (problems) in Ukraine, Who was blocking the construction?

^^^^^^
Answer; the USA, Ukraine, Poland, and the EU.
So when we blew it up we blamed Russia; yeah, that makes a lot of sense that Russia would blow up their own pipeline. The Neocons and their Dem allies, the MSM - including FOX, are just plain evil, there is no getting around that fact

I don't believe Putin gives a crap about the ethnic Russians in western Ukraine, just like he doesn't care about the million plus soldiers being ground up.....It's just an excuse...

Frankly, Russia should just quit in shame that the "powerful" red army couldn't win the war in the first month....

Russia and the US are only 2 1/2 miles at our closest island border points the Diomede Islands. Big Diomede is owned by Russia and Little Diomede is owned by the US. You could walk from one to the other in Winter on the ice, in under an hour. Our mainlands are only 55 miles apart.

Keith

What happened those the sentiments of Russia being some conservative paradise and Putin was fighting the globalists or something this place had a a while a few months back ? Thought some of y'all where gonna move over there with how much y'all loved ole super conservative Christian Putin was

Where are you getting your information? Real question, not sarcasm.
BTW, the "ethnic Russians" are in eastern Ukraine, where the conflict is, not western, where the nazis predominate.

Sorry, wrong region, my bad...still don't think Putin cares, and there hasn't been over a million casualties on Russia's army?

I remember that well, Wolfdog. It was a hot fantasy for a lot of these dudes on Tman--at least for a while while they were being told to think that way.

You're correct, this analogy is hilarious.

"Canada wants to sell LNG to Germany. Critics say it’s a race against time"


"Canada is now also racing against the United States, which became the largest global exporter of LNG in the seven years it took to build the first phase of LNG Canada."


Late to the dance!

Ahh yes... I hope Marty followed his heart and moved there. If so, he probably got sent directly to the front line.

I guess I'm one of those folks with sentiments that Russia is a conservative Country; well I'm still here, with no apologies.
So I guess those on the other side of the issue support globalism, Soros, Klaus Schwab, and the government of Ukraine which supports the largest money laundering racket in the western world? Remember Hunter Biden and Barisma?
We won the cold war against the Marxist, Soviet Union, we should be happy that the Russians threw off communisim. We conservatives here in the USA have a lot more in common with the Russians than we do with western Europeans.

I'm in that boat with you, Waggler. I'm not overly convinced that Russia is the "bad guy" in this.

Me either.

I've always considered both guys to be like mob bosses fighting over territory. I do know one thing, it's a money pit for the American taxpayer.

The amount of money and military aid we have sent over there is staggering.

No US troops should be used period. Ukraine is one of if not the most corrupt excuse for a country and I don’t want my boys paying the price to defend it.

... I swear 70% of these posts basically in " Ha ! Obviously all apart of Trump's master plan !"

Boy I wanna use a Warhammer 40k reference but 99.9% sure no one would get it...

EXACTLY!

And it's way past time for that to end.

Most of the money never leaves the U.S. It is a boon to the military industrial complex. Good ole American jobs.

"As CSIS has reported before, “aid to Ukraine” is a misnomer because 90 percent of military aid is spent in the United States. Of aid overall, 60 percent is spent in the United States, about 25 percent is spent in Ukraine, and the final 15 percent is spent globally."

X2

Same with the NATO excuse. What was his excuse for invading them in 2014?

Where are you getting that? I see very little, if any mention of Trump in this thread.

Half of the first page is basically just people saying it's all apart of Trump's master plan deal making or something

Also not talking about just this post referring to most posts that criticize trump and peoples defenses for anything any everything lately have been boiling down to " ha Trump's master plan! JUST AS PLANNED" or something analogy of 4 d chess

If only they’d let the actual Ukrainians decide what to do,,,,

And before everyone jumps in with “can’t have an election during wartime,,,,”

There’s been plenty of wartime elections in recent times

A democracy should always hold elections in times of war.

They'd probably be much better off if they got rid of the current grifter.

Well ya gotta admit, the issue this thread is about is pretty straight forward to people who ain't clouded with TDS.
He tried diplomacy first so now its on to another tactic. What's the definition of insanity?

"The 2014 Euromaidan protests
In November 2013, the Ukrainian Government of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych decided not to sign a planned Association Agreement with the European Union and demonstrations ensued in the capital Kyiv. These ‘Euromaidan’ demonstrations turned violent in early 2014 and, in February that year, some European foreign ministers mediated a compromise, involving a unity government and early elections.

After the collapse of a power-sharing agreement on 22 February 2014, President Yanukovych disappeared from Ukraine and a new government was installed by the Ukrainian parliament.

Russia’s annexation of Crimea, 2014
Toward the end of February 2014, unidentified military figures, later confirmed to be Russian personnel, surrounded the airports in Crimea, a majority-Russian peninsula in Ukraine. The Crimean autonomous assembly was then seized by pro-Russian forces.

In March 2014 the assembly issued a declaration of independence and a subsequent referendum on union with Russia was held. According to Russian election officials, 95.5% of voters supported union with Russia. The results of that referendum are not internationally recognised.

Since then, Russia has maintained its control over Crimea and supported pro-Russian separatist forces who also took control of parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of eastern Ukraine (the Donbas) in 2014.

Fighting between Russian-supported separatists and Ukrainian government forces has continued in the Donbas for the last eight years despite the negotiation of the Minsk Agreements in 2014/2015 which called for a ceasefire, the withdrawal of all foreign armed groups and constitutional reform recognising the special status of Donetsk and Luhansk."

"Diplomatic efforts to address the conflict between Russia and Ukraine have been ongoing since at least 2014, following Russia's annexation of Crimea and the outbreak of hostilities in the Donbas region, meaning attempts at diplomacy have spanned over eleven years."



"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

I'm still mystified as to why the Russian flag isn't flying over Kiev by now. Just doesn't make sense.

You're ignoring the background to the events. At the time, the plan of the US and EU leaders was to remove Ukraine from Russian influence and later to take over Russia itself.

Some of those involved are openly discussing this.

For example, Carl Bildt, the former Swedish Prime Minister. At the time, he was the EU's chief negotiator on the Ukraine issue, together with Frank-Walter Steinmeier (then German Foreign Minister and now German President).

Here is a lecture by Carl Bildt on the topic of Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_SQuLf74n4

He openly says that the aim of the EU Association Agreement with Ukraine is to remove Ukraine from Russian influence and thus defeat Putin.

At about 30:50 min his plans to force Russia under the normative control of the EU.

Your own Government, above all Victoria Nuland, has also invested a great deal of money and effort in this planned regime change.
Weeks before the Maidan, they were already talking about who should form the new government.

Quote:
"Victoria Nuland, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, spoke of $5 billion, or €4.5 billion, for Ukraine in a call to the American ambassador in Kiev on January 28, 2014. That was just a few weeks before Mr. Yanukovych was chased out of the country. Ms. Nuland also spoke of whom from the opposition could join the new government as if she could influence such things. That all came to light after the conversation was tapped and made public – apparently by a Ukrainian intelligence service officer still loyal to Mr. Yanukovych."
https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-05/ukraine-usa-maidan-finance

During the Maidan, Steinmeier and his colleagues signed an agreement with Yanukovych and the Maidan leaders. Yanukovych was supposed to clear the way for new elections, and in return, the Maidan leaders promised an end to the protests and a peaceful withdrawal.

However, the Maidan movement and its Western backers did not comply, continuing the violent protests and then installing a new, illegal government without elections, in violation of Ukrainian constitutional law.
The population in eastern Ukraine did not want to accept this and so a separatist movement began.


Crimea had been Russian territory since 1783, when it was annexed by Tsarina Catherine II.
Then, in 1954, former Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, himself an Ukrainian, donated Crimea to Ukraine (as was believed at the time to be a symbolic act). Since both countries were part of the Soviet Union, hardly anyone was bothered by this. Whether Khrushchev was already considering a possible breakup of the Soviet Union at that time is unknown.

Because the Russian Black Sea Fleet is stationed in Crimea, in Sevastopol, and the peninsula is otherwise of great strategic importance to Russia, too, and Russia has its only southern ocean access via the Black Sea, it was agreed at the end of the Soviet Union that Crimea would remain virtually under Russian rule.
Attempts were made to change this in 2014, but the Russian government, of course, could not allow that
Just as the US cannot allow China to take control of the Panama Canal or the Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America, whatever you prefer).

To avoid any misunderstandings: Crimea was never part of Ukraine before 1954. Until 1475, it was under the control of Mongolia's khans. In 1475, it fell to the Ottoman Empire, but remained under the administration of local khans. In 1502, the Crimean Tatars defeated the khans and later began their conquests toward Moscow. In 1687 and 1689, the Russians attempted to conquer the region with their Crimean campaigns as part of the Russo-Turkish War. However, Crimea remained a vassal state of the Turkish Empire. The Russians only succeeded in conquering it in 1783. The loss of territory was recognized by the Turks in the Treaty of Jassy in 1792.

Ukraine as a state did not exist before 1917/1918.

^^^^^^
Thanks for the history lesson; this is what it's all about.
Russian has good reason to be paranoid about the motives of the west.

a little time and he will be there

Been almost 4 years...How much time does the vaunted red army need to take over a weak neighbor? and how many casualties? Embarrassing really....

Es tut mir Leid, Manfred. The pack doesn't care anyways.

Weak neighbor? Ukraine is an industrialized country, the likes of which the US hasn't fought since World War II.
They are supported by most Western weapons industries, equipped with US Starlink communications, supplied with real-time reconnaissance data from NATO satellites, AWACS, drones, etc., troops trained by NATO and experienced in war since 2014, equipped with the most modern drone force the world has ever seen, that ist making classic maneuver warfare impossible.
And yet the Russians, a country with a $2 trillion gross domestic product, have taken an average of 20 km² from them every day this year.
And they've done so with warfare the likes of which the world has never seen. I don't think there has ever been a major modern war with so few civilian casualties relative to the number of soldiers killed. No area bombings of major cities, as is common in Western warfare to break the morale of the enemy's civilian population.

"Since the Russian Federation launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, HRMMU has documented the deaths of at least 13,883 civilians, including 726 children, and 35,548 injured, including 2,234 children."

https://ukraine.ohchr.org/en/Number...n-July-2025-UN-human-rights-monitors-say

We don't have reliable figures on military losses on either side, but it will be many hundreds of thousands.

By comparison, according to various sources, Western troops killed approximately 200,000 civilians in the 2003 Iraq War.

Russia isn't just fighting Ukraine. They are fighting the money, military aid and resources of the USA and many countries of the world.

Took 20 years of fighting before the U.S lost to the Taliban in Afghanistan

I believe you.

The (almost) daily frontline changes reports from Defense Politics Asia give a good impression of what is happening at the front.

https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia/videos

I recently watched an interview of a Russian Trainer that had been at the front for 6 months prior to becoming a trainer. He predicted best case scenario the war goes another two years. This drone warfare is a new ball game. We always fight the last war when making predictions.