Iraq Veterans...Kurds
#6635530
10/08/19 05:49 PM
10/08/19 05:49 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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Don't trust politicians or news media much anymore so I'm going to ask the folks, Iraq vets, who may have had dealings with them. Are the Kurds truly friends to the U.S. and should they be defended by Americans militarily? Just wondering.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: turkn8rtrapper]
#6635552
10/08/19 06:39 PM
10/08/19 06:39 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm assuming you are an Iraq veteran since you answered. Did you work with them in Iraq?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635609
10/08/19 08:22 PM
10/08/19 08:22 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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I know so little about the Kurds. Are they of Islamic faith? Donnersurvivor do you remember the reason for the murder of Christians? Did it have to do with their faith are was it more for conquest? Why I'm asking Iraq vets is I figure some have come into contact with the Kurds and would have first hand knowledge.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635623
10/08/19 08:39 PM
10/08/19 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
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Donnersurvivor
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I know so little about the Kurds. Are they of Islamic faith? Donnersurvivor do you remember the reason for the murder of Christians? Did it have to do with their faith are was it more for conquest? Why I'm asking Iraq vets is I figure some have come into contact with the Kurds and would have first hand knowledge. I believe they were promised their farms or paid to kill them by the Turks. Most Kurds are Muslims.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635635
10/08/19 08:49 PM
10/08/19 08:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 748 Michigan
Fur Hanger
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I know so little about the Kurds. Are they of Islamic faith? Donnersurvivor do you remember the reason for the murder of Christians? Did it have to do with their faith are was it more for conquest? Why I'm asking Iraq vets is I figure some have come into contact with the Kurds and would have first hand knowledge. I believe they were promised their farms or paid to kill them by the Turks. Most Kurds are Muslims.
Fur Hanger
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635639
10/08/19 08:53 PM
10/08/19 08:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738 carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man
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No one in that region of the world is truly a friend to the US. Their leaders might play footsie with the US for their own gain. Not all of the people are bad guys, lots of them want to just be left alone. But there is plenty that would cut your throat in a second just because. I dont like our troops being over there in any of those countries but im afraid if we totally pull out of the region one group or another will gain enough power to be a serious problem for anyone that isnt in that group. I do know that alot of the ex military guys that went back to fight as mercenaries went to go fight with the kurds. I was in baghdad for 2 tours and kuwait for the 3rd. I know baghdad pretty well but thats about it. When i was there they shia and sunnis were blowing each other up almost as much as they were trying to blow us up. All over flavors of religion.
If i was supreme overlord i would make that whole region a sheet of glass.
"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635656
10/08/19 09:07 PM
10/08/19 09:07 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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So it basically seems, from the comments of the veterans, that the Kurds are more "politically favorable" to certain parties but are really just another face of the enemy. Of course not all Kurds.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635666
10/08/19 09:14 PM
10/08/19 09:14 PM
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Joined: May 2009
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KeithC
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So it basically seems, from the comments of the veterans, that the Kurds are more "politically favorable" to certain parties but are really just another face of the enemy. Of course not all Kurds. It appears only two vetearns have commented so far. That's not enough for a real representative sample. Keith
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635676
10/08/19 09:25 PM
10/08/19 09:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738 carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man
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This veteran has never met a kurd. All i know is hearsay. I have met a couple thousand sunnis and shias. Searched easily over a thousand houses. Can count on one hand how many rolls of toilet paper i have seen in an iraqi house.
Last edited by The Possum Man; 10/08/19 09:29 PM.
"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: KeithC]
#6635694
10/08/19 09:50 PM
10/08/19 09:50 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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So it basically seems, from the comments of the veterans, that the Kurds are more "politically favorable" to certain parties but are really just another face of the enemy. Of course not all Kurds. It appears only two vetearns have commented so far. That's not enough for a real representative sample. Keith If only two veterans comment, and one who hasn't met a Kurd, it appears that it will be the best t-man sample I'll get. Lol. Hopefully there will be more reply's Keith.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635711
10/08/19 10:06 PM
10/08/19 10:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 838 North dakota
Nd native
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I can say that in 2003 after the fall of Saddam's regime, the Kurds in the north were a US military partner. I partook in the invasion with the 101st ABN and got to travel that God forsaken land from the very south all the way to the Syrian border with then Major General David Patraeus as the division commander. Like any organization/sect you can only trust them so much and there is always going to be those that hate you. However, from 03-04' our military relationship with the Kurds was favorable as we knew they were willing to fight the Iraqi army with us. Not like we really needed them much, but if Saddam would have had chemical weapons or weapons of mass destruction things could have been far worse and casualties could have mounted quick. So many of those that followed in the footsteps of the invasion forgot that we were wearing chemical suits when the order to cross the border came down and we didn't know what to expect. In hindsight any agreement to fight in unison with the Kurds was irrelevant, but they were still willing to put their lives on the line as well and we never disarmed them. I can remember them driving around in their Toyota's packed full of men and RPG's/AK-47's.
No one in that region of the world will ever trust us, not only for this as its pretty insignificant given that population density, but because of the possibility of being just randomly abandoned no matter who you are.
Also as history has taught us, we can fight with anyone up until it's time to fight each other. Look at our alliance with Russia. To think we could always stay at peace with the Kurds would defy history.
Last edited by Nd native; 10/08/19 10:33 PM.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635717
10/08/19 10:15 PM
10/08/19 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,074 North East Kansas
Marty
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Very volatile region in which we cannot clearly win any war unless we want to occupy/govern the whole region. No point loosing any more of our guys there. Keep any real threats to the USA in check with airstrikes....which is what we should have done with bin laden in afgan, dropped a tactical nuke on him and his band of hatred. We will probably have to fight these folks sooner or later but not with two hands tied behind our back. In 20 years they will be running the eu.
E 'Honey Badger Militia' Sleep, the anti woke adote.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Marty]
#6635727
10/08/19 10:19 PM
10/08/19 10:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738 carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man
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Very volatile region in which we cannot clearly win any war unless we want to occupy/govern the whole region. No point loosing any more of our guys there. Keep any real threats to the USA in check with airstrikes....which is what we should have done with bin laden in afgan, dropped a tactical nuke on him and his band of hatred. We will probably have to fight these folks sooner or later but not with two hands tied behind our back. In 20 years they will be running the eu. I can agree with that.
"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635734
10/08/19 10:26 PM
10/08/19 10:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
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What the ..........another liberal on T man
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635739
10/08/19 10:30 PM
10/08/19 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,074 North East Kansas
Marty
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Bomb the detention centers....set em very free, in pieces.
E 'Honey Badger Militia' Sleep, the anti woke adote.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635769
10/08/19 11:16 PM
10/08/19 11:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
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The Possum Man
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9 and a half years active duty US army infantry.
Last edited by The Possum Man; 10/08/19 11:27 PM.
"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635778
10/08/19 11:30 PM
10/08/19 11:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2019
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turkn8rtrapper
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Actually encountered 2 different sects of Kurds. The ones in the north (more militant) and the nomads. The nomads never seemed to bother anyone and mostly kept to themselves. By 05 the ones in the north were very deceitful and were definitely not our friends. I also kicked in more doors than I care to remember or share. Also encountered MANY IED's. Some of which in Kurdish territory and almost always included ambush from cowards in that region. I can honestly say I have no ill will toward any of them. We did invade and occupy their homeland. I however don't trust the vast majority of any of them. As far as the religion I have no problem with it or those that practice it. just like any form of worship. Only the radicals are a problem with me and I question them being religious anyway.
"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635779
10/08/19 11:34 PM
10/08/19 11:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
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Pretty sure they helped us in Iraq during Desert Storm and we helped them, heck they were naming their kids after Bush and Cheney back then. If they were not working with us why would we need to pull out our 150 troops we have working with them.
I believe they were the ones that smoked that Russia jet a few years back also.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Rats!]
#6635830
10/09/19 06:34 AM
10/09/19 06:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,018 USA MN
Snowpa
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I served three years active duty US Army; cold war in WEST Germany (before unification) Cold war period. Ready to fight at any time. Combat mobile unit. Expert marksman. Radar repairman for a HAWK missile air defense battery. Left the service as E5 sergeant. How about your service The Possum Man? Expert non combat Liberal SE.Asia 69-72
Last edited by Snowpa; 10/09/19 06:38 AM.
Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635832
10/09/19 06:39 AM
10/09/19 06:39 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
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"Twerker"
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still served for you and i.opposing viewpoints should be pondered,not automatically dismissed.
thanx to all that have served to give me this blessed life i have.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635844
10/09/19 06:56 AM
10/09/19 06:56 AM
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J Staton
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J Staton
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Rats I would appreciate if you didn't attempt to make this political in an attempt to get this thread axed. This has nothing to do with false accusations to try and remove a duly elected President. My whole thought was to try to determine if the Kurds are enough of an ally to militarily defend if attacked by Turkey, ISIS, etc. My personnel opinion is that the U.S. military's job is to protect and defend the U.S. Not so much to be the world's police force. Although I do believe we should, if a country is a true ally, help defend it against unprovoked aggression.
Last edited by J Staton; 10/09/19 06:56 AM.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6635852
10/09/19 07:09 AM
10/09/19 07:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
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I expect a man to keep his word. If the Kurds were told the U. S. has their back then our country should keep its word
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6635868
10/09/19 07:30 AM
10/09/19 07:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Pike River
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Not an Iraq vet so I may not qualify to reply. I will say the history I have read shows that the Kurds helped murder Christians wholesale during the Armenian genocide. Interesting. Where I grew up had a significant Armenian population. It was the Turks that carried out the wholesale slaughter of Armenians (Christians) but not a single one of the old folks mentioned anything about Kurds.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Marty]
#6635874
10/09/19 07:36 AM
10/09/19 07:36 AM
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Posts: 2,170 B61-12 vicinity, MO
TreedaBlackdog
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.... In 20 years they will be running the eu. In less years than that - less than a handful are running the US........and allowed to represent US God fearing citizens. We need to conduct a self examination.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: AntiGov]
#6635996
10/09/19 11:02 AM
10/09/19 11:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089 Cheyenne Wyoming
Castormound
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What the ..........another liberal on T man Just from that child like response, I know he'll never add anything of value to a discussion.
Antelope, the original fast food!!
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636022
10/09/19 11:49 AM
10/09/19 11:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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My whole thought was to try to determine if the Kurds are enough of an ally to militarily defend if attacked....
I do believe we should, if a country is a true ally, help defend it against unprovoked aggression.
I think that is a big part of the problem with the Kurds. They are an unpopular ethnic minority in Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. They have no established Homeland or Country I don't think the Kurdish populations in any of these Countries have the support of their governments currently in power. Much Like the Montagnards in the Vietnamese and Laos highlands, the Kurds are an unpopular ethnic group that everybody loves to hate. Like the United States used the Montagnards in Vietnam, So too have they used the Kurds as proxy fighters to fight limited engagements against Saddam, Assad, and ISIS. George Bush I essentially abandoned the Kurds at the end the Gulf War after encouraging them to revolt against Saddam. Now President Trump, or whomever is advising him, is doing the same thing. This is the 1st instance where I disagree with President Trump on Foreign Policy. The Kurds have always fought with their backs to the wall to the death. We'll see how it shakes out, but President Trump is way wrong on this one. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Pike River]
#6636024
10/09/19 11:58 AM
10/09/19 11:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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Not an Iraq vet so I may not qualify to reply. I will say the history I have read shows that the Kurds helped murder Christians wholesale during the Armenian genocide. Interesting. Where I grew up had a significant Armenian population. It was the Turks that carried out the wholesale slaughter of Armenians (Christians) but not a single one of the old folks mentioned anything about Kurds. I throw the B.S. Flag on Donnersurvivor's assertions that the Kurds are complicit in Genocide. While some Kurdish sects may have been ordered by Turks to commit atrocities, It was Ottoman Turks running the show In all the History of World War 1 that I have studied, Turkey's Ottoman Empire was responsible for the Genocide of up to 1.5 MILLION Armenians. No mention of a loosely scattered ethnic Kurdish minority inhabiting the Mountainous regions of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran being responsible for any wholesale Turkish Genocide. w
Last edited by walleyed; 10/09/19 01:14 PM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: The Possum Man]
#6636044
10/09/19 12:23 PM
10/09/19 12:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,725 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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Very volatile region in which we cannot clearly win any war unless we want to occupy/govern the whole region. No point loosing any more of our guys there. Keep any real threats to the USA in check with airstrikes....which is what we should have done with bin laden in afgan, dropped a tactical nuke on him and his band of hatred. We will probably have to fight these folks sooner or later but not with two hands tied behind our back. In 20 years they will be running the eu. I can agree with that. I can agree with that also. In about 40 years, unless the US makes some major changes, they'll be running America too. That is their goal if you listen to what some CAIR leaders have said. I know some teachers in my area who refuse to teach in schools with high Muslim populations. They say the kids are extremely rude. On female teacher told me a Muslim girl was standing and walking around the room during class. She refused to take her seat when told to. She said, "This is America and I can do whatever I want."
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636053
10/09/19 01:02 PM
10/09/19 01:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
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I doubt it's a complete abandonment. Trump prolly has something up his sleeve.
The news media won't give us ALL the info
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: yukonjeff]
#6636106
10/09/19 02:13 PM
10/09/19 02:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 915 Northern Virginia
Jarhead620
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The BBC ????? its like the CNN of the UK
We will see if Trump keeps his word. If he does it will be the first time. He thinks he's God as he flies by the seat of his pants right into a catastrophe. Jarhead
Last edited by Jarhead620; 10/09/19 02:20 PM.
"Just as the deer herd lives in mortal fear of its wolves, so does a mountain live in mortal fear of its deer." Aldo Leopold
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Rats!]
#6636131
10/09/19 02:51 PM
10/09/19 02:51 PM
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Posts: 317 Ohio
PBS
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Trumpy Bear is just performing his old tricks again. Like a schoolboy who says "look, your shoe is untied". He wants to distract attention from the real trouble he is in regarding impeachment proceedings at the expense of a truly explosive setting which could free thousands of IS fighters who are in detention camps. Your username goes along perfectly with your ignorant comment.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: yukonjeff]
#6636138
10/09/19 03:09 PM
10/09/19 03:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
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walleyed
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The BBC ????? its like the CNN of the UK
We will see if Trump keeps his word. Are you saying there is not the start of a Turkish Invasion of northern Syria by Erdogan's Forces along with artillery shelling & airstrikes of Kurdish held territory ? w
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636158
10/09/19 03:53 PM
10/09/19 03:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,240 West Michigan
Getting There
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All I have heard is they can not be trusted. JMO
To Old U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636263
10/09/19 06:53 PM
10/09/19 06:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683 PA
gryhkl
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Rats I would appreciate if you didn't attempt to make this political in an attempt to get this thread axed. This has nothing to do with false accusations to try and remove a duly elected President. My whole thought was to try to determine if the Kurds are enough of an ally to militarily defend if attacked by Turkey, ISIS, etc. My personnel opinion is that the U.S. military's job is to protect and defend the U.S. Not so much to be the world's police force. Although I do believe we should, if a country is a true ally, help defend it against unprovoked aggression. You tell him not to get political when all he did was express his opinion(one that is shared by many-even republicans). One of the next poster made it political by calling him a liberal. .....I suppose, when one considers trump's habit of name-calling, we should not be surprised when his followers use the same tactic any time somebody thinks differently than they do.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: gryhkl]
#6636268
10/09/19 07:10 PM
10/09/19 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
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Rats I would appreciate if you didn't attempt to make this political in an attempt to get this thread axed. This has nothing to do with false accusations to try and remove a duly elected President. My whole thought was to try to determine if the Kurds are enough of an ally to militarily defend if attacked by Turkey, ISIS, etc. My personnel opinion is that the U.S. military's job is to protect and defend the U.S. Not so much to be the world's police force. Although I do believe we should, if a country is a true ally, help defend it against unprovoked aggression. You tell him not to get political when all he did was express his opinion(one that is shared by many-even republicans). One of the next poster made it political by calling him a liberal. .....I suppose, when one considers trump's habit of name-calling, we should not be surprised when his followers use the same tactic any time somebody thinks differently than they do. And yet You hold the record( responsible) for " the most axed threads "
Last edited by AntiGov; 10/09/19 07:13 PM.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636285
10/09/19 07:38 PM
10/09/19 07:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951 OH
Catch22
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You just can't help yourself can you?
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Catch22]
#6636294
10/09/19 07:50 PM
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Lugnut
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,081
SEPA
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You just can't help yourself can you? He can’t.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Marty]
#6636304
10/09/19 08:17 PM
10/09/19 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,112 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,112
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
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Bomb the detention centers....set em very free, in pieces. Let God sort em out!
NRALIFER,PRPA LIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Lugnut]
#6636306
10/09/19 08:23 PM
10/09/19 08:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089 Cheyenne Wyoming
Castormound
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,089
Cheyenne Wyoming
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You just can't help yourself can you? He can’t. If nothing else, he is predictable
Antelope, the original fast food!!
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Nd native]
#6636412
10/09/19 10:39 PM
10/09/19 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740
Central Oregon
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At some point Russia is going to step in to fill the void as world police is my concern. And then what? Russian expansion? Putin seems to have already eluded to that. I agree , Putin is the snake in the grass , and we should pay close attention
Report a post club - Non member
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Nd native]
#6636440
10/09/19 11:25 PM
10/09/19 11:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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At some point Russia is going to step in to fill the void as world police is my concern. And then what? Russian expansion? Putin seems to have already eluded to that. Yup Russia is playing for central Asia/middle east. China is playing for the Indian Ocean and Africa.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: AntiGov]
#6636463
10/09/19 11:59 PM
10/09/19 11:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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At some point Russia is going to step in to fill the void as world police is my concern. And then what? Russian expansion? Putin seems to have already eluded to that. I agree , Putin is the snake in the grass , and we should pay close attention Wow, you actually made a substantive post! Instead of just whining about someone else's. Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636466
10/10/19 12:04 AM
10/10/19 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740 Central Oregon
AntiGov
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,740
Central Oregon
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Who made you the post police , jimmy ? While you're at it will you correct my grammar / puncuation ?
Last edited by AntiGov; 10/10/19 12:05 AM.
Report a post club - Non member
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Lugnut]
#6636509
10/10/19 06:27 AM
10/10/19 06:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683 PA
gryhkl
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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You just can't help yourself can you? He can’t. Is something I said inaccurate? Is the question I asked out of line? Some simply cannot tolerate thinking that does not align with their own. Many on both side are questioning trump's actions regarding this matter. Personally, I'm of the opinion that trump is unstable and becoming more so as the election approaches. He/we needs a republican challenger.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636521
10/10/19 06:48 AM
10/10/19 06:48 AM
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J Staton
OP
Unregistered
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J Staton
OP
Unregistered
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Since I started this thread grackle, let me inform you my intent of this subject. It was not for a leftist Trump bashing, I get that every time I turn on the news, it was whether the Kurds were a true ally that should be defended. I think most U.S. citizens are tired of U.S. blood being spilled over foreign squabbles, yet most do realize in certain cases it's necessary, whether for protecting our allies are securing our own security.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Nd native]
#6636579
10/10/19 08:16 AM
10/10/19 08:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,527 Wi.
Diggerman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,527
Wi.
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At some point Russia is going to step in to fill the void as world police is my concern. And then what? Russian expansion? Putin seems to have already eluded to that. Let'em have it. What the heck good is it? We got it, don't know what to do with it, cant even find a good way to dump it. We should give Afganistan back to the Ruskies also.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: danny clifton]
#6636585
10/10/19 08:22 AM
10/10/19 08:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,527 Wi.
Diggerman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,527
Wi.
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I expect a man to keep his word. If the Kurds were told the U. S. has their back then our country should keep its word Its not like they came here to help us, or are helping anyone else on their good will. They fought along side the US because it benefitted them, period. Pulling out was a good and long overdue call. If not now, when?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Pike River]
#6636592
10/10/19 08:44 AM
10/10/19 08:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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At some point Russia is going to step in to fill the void as world police is my concern. And then what? Russian expansion? Putin seems to have already eluded to that. Yup Russia is playing for central Asia/middle east. China is playing for the Indian Ocean and Africa. Thought of this comment this morning as I listened to the new. The Kurds are now reaching out to the Russians asking them to work with Erderron (sp) . This could now escalate between Russia and turkey who have been historic rivals.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: 52Carl]
#6636612
10/10/19 09:13 AM
10/10/19 09:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,471 Wisconsin
Muskrat
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,471
Wisconsin
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The biggest problem with the entire Middle East region is that all of the boundaries of those "countries" were drawn in pencil after WWII and not by any of the people who live there. So not surprisingly, those "borders" mean nothing to the vast majority of those people. What does seem to matter to them, is what religious sect does one belong to. The only ones who want us there are the ones who are being out-slaughtered by the neighboring sects which disagree with their religious sect beliefs. We need to leave them alone and let Allah sort it out.
A fair evaluation of the situation, though one may have to go back to the restructuring that occurred at the end of World War I. https://www.dodlive.mil/2017/08/11/how-world-war-i-made-the-middle-east-what-it-is-today/
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636617
10/10/19 09:20 AM
10/10/19 09:20 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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his ego would never let him,he's just as bad as that"who-flung-poo"in N.Korea.with a lot more bad buttons to push.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: walleyed]
#6636651
10/10/19 10:05 AM
10/10/19 10:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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Not an Iraq vet so I may not qualify to reply. I will say the history I have read shows that the Kurds helped murder Christians wholesale during the Armenian genocide. I throw the B.S. Flag on Donnersurvivor's assertions that the Kurds are complicit in Genocide. While some Kurdish sects may have been ordered by Turks to commit atrocities, It was Ottoman Turks running the show In all the History of World War 1 that I have studied, Turkey's Ottoman Empire was responsible for the Genocide of up to 1.5 MILLION Armenians. No mention of a loosely scattered ethnic Kurdish minority inhabiting the Mountainous regions of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran being responsible for any wholesale Turkish Genocide. w Instead of calling BS you could of simply Googled what I said and found out the truth rather easily. The Kurds had been extorting the Armenians since the late 1800s by charging them illegal taxes and routinely robbing them, the ruling Turks did nothing to stop and let it go on for quite some time. When the Genocide was occurring the Turks allowed the Kurds to wholesale murder the Armenians and steal their belongings including their homes. From my understanding the Turks did not pay the Kurds to rob and kill the Armenians nor did they demand they do it, they just allowed them and the Kurds took full advantage. There are numerous Kurdish groups who admit this happened. If I am wrong tell me why and give me the right information to educate me instead of just saying BS because the information I provided is outside your current scope of knowledge.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Ol' Smoke]
#6636717
10/10/19 12:03 PM
10/10/19 12:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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So pulling 50-150 American servicemen causes the entire regional chaos? Our guys must be bad-a$$. It opens up the Kurds to attack without the chance of killing any Americans and then opening up a can of worms they don't want to mess with! More about politics then firepower. Same as when we don't attack Syrian troops because they have Russians mixed in with them for support.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636776
10/10/19 02:23 PM
10/10/19 02:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,042 SE Iowa USA
AKAjust
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,042
SE Iowa USA
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Interesting but typical. J Staton asked for comments from those who were in the area. I suggest a poll of those who have commented here as who was actually in the area. just
Last edited by AKAjust; 10/10/19 02:38 PM. Reason: spelling
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636819
10/10/19 04:01 PM
10/10/19 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Many ex military went back to fight with the Kurds so I don't think they are all that bad, Trump referenced that they did nothing in WWII for us but then what about the 2 latest wars in Iraq then?
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: hippie]
#6636923
10/10/19 06:30 PM
10/10/19 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683 PA
gryhkl
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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You'd have thought Russia would've learned their lesson back in the 80's, in Afghanistan.
You'd have thought we would have learned from what happened with Russia in Afghanistan before we got stuck there. At least they had the sense to pull out in around 9 years..... Thousands of lives and trillions of dollars and things are no more stable now. There were quotes on foxnews in the past hour from US military members who are very upset that the men they "fought and bled with" are being abandoned. If you want opinions from those who have been/are there, they stated theirs.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6636943
10/10/19 06:53 PM
10/10/19 06:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Kurds are getting pounded now bad move for Trump, not happy and I let them know it.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6637025
10/10/19 08:22 PM
10/10/19 08:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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I throw the B.S. Flag on Donnersurvivor's assertions that the Kurds are complicit in Genocide.
While some Kurdish sects may have been ordered by Turks to commit atrocities,
It was Ottoman Turks running the show
In all the History of World War 1 that I have studied, Turkey's Ottoman Empire
was responsible for the Genocide of up to 1.5 MILLION Armenians.
No mention of a loosely scattered ethnic Kurdish minority inhabiting
the Mountainous regions of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran
being responsible for any wholesale Turkish Genocide.
w
Instead of calling BS you could of simply Googled what I said and found out the truth rather easily. The Kurds had been extorting the Armenians since the late 1800s by charging them illegal taxes and routinely robbing them If I am wrong tell me why and give me the right information to educate me instead of just saying BS because the information I provided is outside your current scope of knowledge. You are Talking as if The Turks had nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide and that It was planned, and executed solely by the Kurdish minority while the Turks smoked hashish and watched. That's B.S. If you look at the historical record as a whole, The Turkish Army was by far, more involved in the affair than The Kurdish Minority. That's like saying that Bulgarians were responsible for the Holocaust because some Bulgarian Policemen helped the Nazi's round up some Gypsies and Jews. While I've read of some instances that Kurds were involved in persecuting Armenians, saying the Kurds were the driving force behind the Armenian genocide is a load of Bull Excrement. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6637044
10/10/19 08:54 PM
10/10/19 08:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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I said nor implied that the Turks had little to do with it, it is common knowledge the Turks were the main aggressors. That doesn't mean the Kurds were not involved which they were and not on a small scale. I'll Give you that. They were certainly involved but they played a less than major role. I just read the entire wikipedia file on the subject, and there is mountains of historical data on the subject. It was a free for all on the Armenians because they were Christians and the Turks Muslim. The Kurds were only one of many who had a hand in wiping out the Armenians. Now It looks like the KURDS have long out lived their usefulness to Turkey, and They are next in the Turkish Genocide Lottery unless Mr. Trump Takes a couple steps back. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6637062
10/10/19 09:13 PM
10/10/19 09:13 PM
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J Staton
OP
Unregistered
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J Staton
OP
Unregistered
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Does Turkey have a legitimate reason, such as terrorism by the Kurds, or is this truly unprovoked aggression? A person or country has a right to defend themselves and determining if there's a legitimate reason for such aggression should determine policy . In my opinion.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: KeithC]
#6637066
10/10/19 09:16 PM
10/10/19 09:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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Armenia is on the West side of Turkey. The Kurds live almost exclusively on the East side of Turkey. I find it very unlikely that the Kurds left their area of Turkey and went through areas of Turkey that are hostile to them, in anything approaching significant numbers to hurt Armenians, who they have no issue with. It would be dangerous for the Kurds and make absolutely no sense.
Keith Armenians were by in large of Russian origin and were 1st swept up and conquered in the 15th century by muslims. When the Turks started evicting them from their homes in Western Turkey, they were marched west into the Syrian desert before the Kurds got involved. If anything, It's more likely the Kurds were victims of circumstance and coerced into persecuting the Armenians. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6637118
10/10/19 10:07 PM
10/10/19 10:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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Does Turkey have a legitimate reason, such as terrorism by the Kurds, or is this truly unprovoked aggression? A person or country has a right to defend themselves and determining if there's a legitimate reason for such aggression should determine policy . In my opinion. The Kurds are fighting for a separate state.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6637497
10/11/19 01:20 PM
10/11/19 01:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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Does Turkey have a legitimate reason, such as terrorism by the Kurds, or is this truly unprovoked aggression? A person or country has a right to defend themselves and determining if there's a legitimate reason for such aggression should determine policy . In my opinion. The Kurds are fighting for a separate state. The U.N should rewrite the national boundary lines to create a Greater Kurdistan from ceded territory of the Mountainous regions of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. That way all three nations "solve" their KURD problem and the Kurdish people get a homeland. The KURDS should get some of the oil rich region in northern Iraq and a corridor between Syria and Turkey to the Mediterranean Sea so they can pipe out their oil and become a self-sustaining nation. w
Last edited by walleyed; 10/11/19 01:22 PM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6637501
10/11/19 01:28 PM
10/11/19 01:28 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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in a perfect world Walleyed,that should be easy but these people have a hatred for eachother i don't think we can understand.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: pcr2]
#6637508
10/11/19 01:36 PM
10/11/19 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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in a perfect world Walleyed,that should be easy but these people have a hatred for eachother i don't think we can understand. All the more reason to give the KURDS their own country. Wouldn't be any worse than what they did in 1948 when they gave the Jews their own homeland in present day Isreal. The KURDS already "owned" the Mountainous regions of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran before the League of Nations drew the arbitrary lines on a map after World War I. They should have went with traditional tribal boundaries instead. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: walleyed]
#6637511
10/11/19 01:45 PM
10/11/19 01:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Armenia is on the West side of Turkey. The Kurds live almost exclusively on the East side of Turkey. I find it very unlikely that the Kurds left their area of Turkey and went through areas of Turkey that are hostile to them, in anything approaching significant numbers to hurt Armenians, who they have no issue with. It would be dangerous for the Kurds and make absolutely no sense.
Keith Armenians were by in large of Russian origin and were 1st swept up and conquered in the 15th century by muslims. When the Turks started evicting them from their homes in Western Turkey, they were marched west into the Syrian desert before the Kurds got involved. If anything, It's more likely the Kurds were victims of circumstance and coerced into persecuting the Armenians. w The Armenians are from eastern Turkey, are not Russian (Slavs) but are Caucasians (Kavkas)
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6637636
10/11/19 05:51 PM
10/11/19 05:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Seen where some Special Ops guys are not happy, they said they fought and bleed with those guy and said they are ashamed of the actions being taken now.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Law Dog]
#6637928
10/11/19 11:37 PM
10/11/19 11:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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I hear today Erdogan's forces shelled U.S. Special Forces with a heavy artillery barrage,
after which they were quickly evacuated from the area.
Sounds like Trump's decision to show weakness has had unforseen consequences
as abandoning the KURDS,(If he really has), has emboldened Erdogan to push the envelope.
Turkey needs to have it's military aid chopped, our air bases shuttered, and then kicked out of NATO.
Apply some crippling financial sanctions to the Turkish economy, and make them see the error of their ways.
w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: walleyed]
#6638028
10/12/19 07:26 AM
10/12/19 07:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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I hear today Erdogan's forces shelled U.S. Special Forces with a heavy artillery barrage,
after which they were quickly evacuated from the area.
Sounds like Trump's decision to show weakness has had unforseen consequences
as abandoning the KURDS,(If he really has), has emboldened Erdogan to push the envelope.
Turkey needs to have it's military aid chopped, our air bases shuttered, and then kicked out of NATO.
Apply some crippling financial sanctions to the Turkish economy, and make them see the error of their ways.
w We kinda want an airbase there....are alliance to Turkey is more to keep Russia in check. It will be interesting to see how this turns out in the next 6 years.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Pike River]
#6638046
10/12/19 08:01 AM
10/12/19 08:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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I hear today Erdogan's forces shelled U.S. Special Forces with a heavy artillery barrage,
after which they were quickly evacuated from the area.
Sounds like Trump's decision to show weakness has had unforseen consequences
as abandoning the KURDS,(If he really has), has emboldened Erdogan to push the envelope.
Turkey needs to have it's military aid chopped, our air bases shuttered, and then kicked out of NATO.
Apply some crippling financial sanctions to the Turkish economy, and make them see the error of their ways.
w We kinda want an airbase there....are alliance to Turkey is more to keep Russia in check. It will be interesting to see how this turns out in the next 6 years. Erdogan wanted F-35 or F-22 fighter/bombers from the U.S. and then turned around and ordered advanced radar defense systems from Russia. Erdogan has been slowly climbing in bed with Putin over the last few years, and playing both sides. I understand that we need Incirlik airbase and others for strategic reasons, But If Turkey is supposed to be NATO's check of Russian Hegemony, then NATO needs to apply more pressure to Ergodan to start acting more like an trusted ally. w
Last edited by walleyed; 10/12/19 08:03 AM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6638091
10/12/19 09:13 AM
10/12/19 09:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,324 Northern MN
Osky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,324
Northern MN
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You can put shiney new clothes on a caveman, but he will still be a caveman.
Osky
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it" Jabless in Minnesota www.SureDockusa.com
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Osky]
#6638211
10/12/19 01:03 PM
10/12/19 01:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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You can put shiney new clothes on a caveman, but he will still be a caveman.
Osky Could apply to anyone involved in this issue?
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: walleyed]
#6638216
10/12/19 01:13 PM
10/12/19 01:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934 SE WI
DuxDawg
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,934
SE WI
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You are Talking as if The Turks had nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide and that It was planned, and executed solely by the Kurdish minority while the Turks smoked hashish and watched.
That's B.S.
If you look at the historical record as a whole, The Turkish Army was by far, more involved in the affair than The Kurdish Minority. That's like saying that Bulgarians were responsible for the Holocaust because some Bulgarian Policemen helped the Nazi's round up some Gypsies and Jews. While I've read of some instances that Kurds were involved in persecuting Armenians, saying the Kurds were the driving force behind the Armenian genocide is a load of Bull Excrement.
w Well said.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke "We are fast approaching... rule by brute force." -Ayn Rand
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6638218
10/12/19 01:15 PM
10/12/19 01:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
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What happened to the veterans?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Osky]
#6638224
10/12/19 01:31 PM
10/12/19 01:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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You can put shiney new clothes on a caveman, but he will still be a caveman.
Osky True Dat. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: walleyed]
#6638566
10/13/19 06:48 AM
10/13/19 06:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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The Kurds are Socialist/communist and separatist, the U.S has listed several Kurdish groups as terrorist. They were useful in the fight against ISIS when we had a common enemy but I fail to see why we should help them usher in their commie separatist state. Again, I have no first hand knowledge but everything I have said is easily researched, look into it yourself and come to your own conclusions as to why we would not want to continue helping them.
Last edited by Donnersurvivor; 10/13/19 06:49 AM.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#6638670
10/13/19 09:22 AM
10/13/19 09:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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The Kurds are Socialist/communist and separatist, the U.S has listed several Kurdish groups as terrorist. Pretty sure the Kurdish PKK and YPG were listed by the U.S. as a terrorist organization because of enormous political pressure brought by Turkey as a NATO ally. They are fighting for a Kurdish homeland for their own people (TRIBE). That doesn't automatically qualify them as terrorists. In another situation, they might be considered Partisans or Revolutionists fighting to establish their own country. Kind of like during the American Revolution. Erdogan has no intention of giving the KURDs a fair shake in their own country, and as an unpopular minority They will continue to be an oppressed people. It's tribalism at It's finest,but that doesn't mean it should be condoned by a civilized world. w
Last edited by walleyed; 10/13/19 09:48 AM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: The Possum Man]
#6638757
10/13/19 11:42 AM
10/13/19 11:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 308 PA
Tye dye trapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 308
PA
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No one in that region of the world is truly a friend to the US. Their leaders might play footsie with the US for their own gain. Not all of the people are bad guys, lots of them want to just be left alone. But there is plenty that would cut your throat in a second just because. I dont like our troops being over there in any of those countries but im afraid if we totally pull out of the region one group or another will gain enough power to be a serious problem for anyone that isnt in that group. I do know that alot of the ex military guys that went back to fight as mercenaries went to go fight with the kurds. I was in baghdad for 2 tours and kuwait for the 3rd. I know baghdad pretty well but thats about it. When i was there they shia and sunnis were blowing each other up almost as much as they were trying to blow us up. All over flavors of religion.
If i was supreme overlord i would make that whole region a sheet of glass. A lot of Interpretors we had in 05 were Kurds. The ones I dealt with were very pleasant. I recall one was afraid if any of the local Baghdad population would find out he was Kurdish. Crazy times....
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: JKS]
#6638775
10/13/19 12:26 PM
10/13/19 12:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738 carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,738
carolina, Alabama
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Weren’t the Russians our allies in WW II?? Enemy of my enemy and all that. It ended fairly abruptly when they started trying to decide who got control of berlin. Hence the berlin wall and the start of the cold war.
"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: JKS]
#6638791
10/13/19 01:06 PM
10/13/19 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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Weren’t the Russians our allies in WW II?? Yes and we basically helped them achieve everything Germany wanted to, a genocidal expansionist oligarchy who controlled half of Europe. It has become very obvious Communist/socialist regimes are destined for failure, I dont think the U.S should help form or promote them.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6638792
10/13/19 01:06 PM
10/13/19 01:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Kurds fought and died with us just like others we walked away from in the past! If they were the enemy why did the special ops guy work with them all of these years?
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6638796
10/13/19 01:12 PM
10/13/19 01:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: hippie]
#6638798
10/13/19 01:16 PM
10/13/19 01:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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What was the problem when our guys were there fighting ISIS then why not let them stay there and keep the peace! When were the turks on our side?
Last edited by Law Dog; 10/13/19 01:16 PM.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: gryhkl]
#6638837
10/13/19 02:37 PM
10/13/19 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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Spot on, bblwi!!! dick cheney should have his name dragged through the mud anytime problem are bought up over there. One of the worst Americans in history. Not saying I disagree but why let Bush jr off the hook and just look at the VP? Ultimately it was President Bush who had the authority (maybe only in theory).
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6638869
10/13/19 03:43 PM
10/13/19 03:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Fight with people for almost 30 years then walk away and let them get slaughtered wholesale, you will never sell me any angle I will agree with. It's not this guy or that guy it's about loyalty nothing more.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: hippie]
#6638895
10/13/19 04:26 PM
10/13/19 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683 PA
gryhkl
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
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We are, once again, planting seeds that will sprout terrorists bent on paying us back....... We never learn. We could secure our border for a fraction of the cost as worrying about someone's border 7000 miles away. Yes. There are sooooo many things that would have been better uses for the money we have pour down the drain of that cesspool. And Donner, I don't give gw a free pass but, I believe cheney was pulling the strings and was upset that daddy-Bush didn't use the chance to stay over there and make him and heliburton friends even richer. HW was smart enough to know that going in without a workable exit strategy was a mistake.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Law Dog]
#6638943
10/13/19 06:01 PM
10/13/19 06:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
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Fight with people for almost 30 years then walk away and let them get slaughtered wholesale, you will never sell me any angle I will agree with. It's not this guy or that guy it's about loyalty nothing more. Do we babysit forever?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639136
10/13/19 09:57 PM
10/13/19 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694 Virginia
52Carl
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694
Virginia
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Some of you genius' who are saying that we should not get out, are the same ones who screamed when we went in. If I had been King when 3,000 innocent Americans were slaughtered in 2001, they would be mining glass over there now. Our men and women were sent over there to fight a "kind" war with their hands tied behind their backs. If we are not willing to turn everything into rubble and not worry about collateral damage (women and, children included), then we should not step one foot over there. Period! Given all of the different factions involved over there who are mortal enemies of each other, it is impossible to "win" anything, therefore we should not spend one minute over there. We should get out now and stay out. If they attack us again, it will be time to fire up the glass factory.
Last edited by 52Carl; 10/14/19 10:41 PM.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639191
10/14/19 12:04 AM
10/14/19 12:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914 Central, SD
Law Dog
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,914
Central, SD
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Leaving is not the issue but when, how and what the results of those moves that will come back to bite us is the problem. Could of been done better a lot of different ways is all.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639327
10/14/19 08:43 AM
10/14/19 08:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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Syrian Kurds are now appealing to Assad and Russia for help
holding off Erdogan and the Genocide-bent Turks who are invading northern Syria.
Reports say a large number of ISIS dependents (women & children) plus close to 800
ISIS combatants have escaped from holding areas run by the KURDS.
Every thing is descending into chaos.
Perfect.
Glad U.S. forces are not caught in the crossfire but the pullout
could have been thought out a little better along with a big stick
to whack Erdogan if He started to act aggressively towards the Syrian/Iraqi KURDS.
w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639353
10/14/19 09:20 AM
10/14/19 09:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 111 Utah
birdman640
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 111
Utah
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Well let me say that I was in NAM and we were fighting with our hands tried. I can't remember how many times I had to call in to the CP for permission to fire back!!! What I needed was someone to help us win that WAR!!!! If it was the KURDS so be it. I don't think we should leave our allies. It just makes look more undependable. I don't like the way we got into this fight, but we should stick it out.
The sole purpose of a child's middle name, is so he can tell when he's really in trouble.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639389
10/14/19 10:10 AM
10/14/19 10:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Allying with any faction in the Middle East has always been a crap shoot. You can NEVER be sure that you won't regret it down the road...
We aligned with the Shah in Iran... Didn't work.
We backed the mujihadeen in Afghanistan... Precursor to the Taliban.
We backed Saddam to help fight Iran.
We back the Saudis.
We always go in with good intentions... But how do you help a region of the world where humanity is not a concern of the inhabitants who live there?
I can't really say I support either side of this debate because it seems there is no "right" decision when it comes to the Middle East. We might end up regretting NOT helping the Kurds... But chances are just about even we might regret helping them.
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639396
10/14/19 10:15 AM
10/14/19 10:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951 OH
Catch22
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
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I have absolutely no problem with bringing our Warriors home.
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: bblwi]
#6639501
10/14/19 01:47 PM
10/14/19 01:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
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Maybe bringing our troops out is the best call now but we are leaving our dirty laundry scattered all over the whole Mid-East. One does not build solid foreign policy relations by starting fights and then leaving after damaging whatever balance may have been there before entering. It has been a good way for us to test our weaponry and find markets for our military arms and technology, but at the expense of lives of many who we seem to discount as lesser humans even if they help and support us.
Bryce "Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea. Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. "
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Pike River]
#6639526
10/14/19 02:39 PM
10/14/19 02:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,204
Armpit, ak
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Yes. Who would be more knowledgeable about both sides of the military industrial complex equation? I'm sure it has only gotten worse.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639530
10/14/19 02:48 PM
10/14/19 02:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951 OH
Catch22
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 16,951
OH
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For one, It's not our job to police the world. I couldn't care less about what goes on over there, as long as it doesn't darken our door I say let them have at it. Secondly, I grew up as a kid during NAM and know how our Gov't hamstringed our Warriors, here we go again. If your gonna get'em, then dang it get'em. Thirdly, We defeated ISIS and that was the job, took years to do, now it's time to go. Lastly, we were only supposed to be there for a short while and what, 9 years later we are there, BS. All the blowhards in Congress, including Repubs that are running their mouths and slamming Trump for keeping a promise to us, bringing our troops home, need to either shut up or do what they are supposed to do. Declare WAR and then kick some butt.
I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Dirt]
#6639532
10/14/19 02:50 PM
10/14/19 02:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570 Dunbar, Wisconsin
Pike River
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Yes. Who would be more knowledgeable about both sides of the military industrial complex equation? I'm sure it has only gotten worse. +1!
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6639662
10/14/19 07:37 PM
10/14/19 07:37 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076 SE Nebraska
trapperne
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076
SE Nebraska
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I heard some place the other day the Kurds have killed something in the neighborhood of 40,000 Turks over a period of time, I can’t remember exactly what they said. We turned iraq and Afghanistan into a parking lot for 10 percent of that so hard to blame them for the invasion
Last edited by trapperne; 10/14/19 07:38 PM.
Follow me on Facebook @ Lincoln Fur
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: trapperne]
#6640434
10/15/19 04:34 PM
10/15/19 04:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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I heard some place the other day the Kurds have killed something in the neighborhood of 40,000 Turks over a period of time That's a good start.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6641984
10/17/19 01:44 PM
10/17/19 01:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,081 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,081
SEPA
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VP Pence brokered a cease-fire between Turkey and Syria today. We’ll see how long it lasts.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: Lugnut]
#6642022
10/17/19 02:45 PM
10/17/19 02:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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VP Pence brokered a cease-fire between Turkey and Syria today. We’ll see how long it lasts. What needs to happen now is the Kurds, The Syrian Government Forces, and the Russians need to hit the Turks, and hit them hard and knock their arses back across the border. Maybe even roll about 50 miles into Turkey, and establish a "Buffer Zone" on Turkey's side of the border. Turkey started this little border dust-up so they are the aggressors. No need for fellow NATO members to come to their aid since they started it as they are the bully in the region. IMHO. w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: 52Carl]
#6642026
10/17/19 02:49 PM
10/17/19 02:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,363 Custer Co, Idaho
sneaky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,363
Custer Co, Idaho
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Someone pick me one faction in Syria or neighboring countries which is trustworthy of anything whatsoever. Coptic Christians. They've been reduced from 1.5 million in the late 90s to around 250,000 now. You guys can argue about Armenian genocide from a hundred years ago all you want, it's happening today right under the world's nose. Islam is the trendy religion now, no one wants to offend them, yet they are murdering and displacing Christians at an unprecedented rate. USMC Iraq veteran, Fallujah 04-05, Rutbah 08.
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6642028
10/17/19 02:51 PM
10/17/19 02:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,081 SEPA
Lugnut
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,081
SEPA
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That would be a violation of the cease-fire Walleyed.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#6642029
10/17/19 02:51 PM
10/17/19 02:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,363 Custer Co, Idaho
sneaky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,363
Custer Co, Idaho
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I've been lurking for a while reading the forums, figured I couldn't let y'all have all the fun.
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: sneaky]
#6642045
10/17/19 03:07 PM
10/17/19 03:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,563
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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Someone pick me one faction in Syria or neighboring countries which is trustworthy of anything whatsoever. Coptic Christians. They've been reduced from 1.5 million in the late 90s to around 250,000 now. You guys can argue about Armenian genocide from a hundred years ago all you want, it's happening today right under the world's nose. Islam is the trendy religion now, no one wants to offend them, yet they are murdering and displacing Christians at an unprecedented rate. USMC Iraq veteran, Fallujah 04-05, Rutbah 08. Very good point, sneaky. Are the Syrians, Turks, Iraqis, or Kurds complicit in the persecution of Coptic Christians ? We know the ISIS Caliphate was responsible for much of genocide but are any of the above guilty of the same ethnic purging in a systematic way ? w
Last edited by walleyed; 10/17/19 03:08 PM.
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: sneaky]
#6642149
10/17/19 06:14 PM
10/17/19 06:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584 MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,584
MN
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Someone pick me one faction in Syria or neighboring countries which is trustworthy of anything whatsoever. Coptic Christians. They've been reduced from 1.5 million in the late 90s to around 250,000 now. You guys can argue about Armenian genocide from a hundred years ago all you want, it's happening today right under the world's nose. Islam is the trendy religion now, no one wants to offend them, yet they are murdering and displacing Christians at an unprecedented rate. USMC Iraq veteran, Fallujah 04-05, Rutbah 08. good insight. For you guys who feel like we need to defend the Kurds and attack the Turks, the Kurds accept western volunteers.
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Re: Iraq Veterans...Kurds
[Re: ]
#7631676
07/21/22 11:23 AM
07/21/22 11:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655 Central Texas
Chancey
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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Although this thread is old, it is still very relevant today. Particularly with the recent visits to the Middle East by both Biden and Putin. Erdogan accuses US of training terrorists
Resident Conspiracy Theorist Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
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